leaf will now have a capacity loss waranty

i wonder if they would be better off offering a low cost repair/replacement solution or pro rating it over 10 yrs/150,000 miles?

 

I found my way to the 550+ replies thread on mynissanleaf

"For LEAF vehicles whose batteries have fallen below nine bars during this period, ..."

I understand LEAF has 12 bars for charged up new battery.

Hot button subject that started off with Arizona Leaf owners last Summer, or was it March? SLT.

November 2011, a Nissan EV rep at SF show told me Leaf battery 'modules' can be replaced at lower cost, don't have to replace whole battery. So she said.

 

The thread w/the announcement of the capacity warranty is at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Nissan LEAF Update from Andy Palmer.

It became a big issue w/AZ and TX Leaf owners partway thru this past summer, leading to that 500+ page thread.

Re: whatever Nissan reps say at auto shows, gotta take those w/a grain of salt. Sure, the modules can be replaced individually, but it seems to me that might create an out of balance pack. At auto shows, the reps are telling people the Leaf has a 100 mile range, on average (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Nissan LEAF Update from Andy Palmer). Good luck w/that.

I would LOVE to force one of those reps to attempt 100 miles w/esp. some CA freeway driving at freeway speeds in there. If they do it winter where they need to use the heater or defrost, they will fall WAY short.

(BTW, for some context, Tony Williams put together this range chart: My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Range Chart.)

 

Just because the warranty says 5/60K, doesn't mean that is EOL. We have to be careful not spew the same FUD that still plagues the Prius today. How many times have you heard that the batteries die at 100K in every car and it costs your first born child to replace it... The truth is that some die earlier, some die around 100K, but most last double or more that number.

I have a feeling the Leaf will be the same. Some will fail before 60K and get a free replacement. Some will fail right around 60K and maybe Nissan will do as Toyota does and extend good-will to the majority of customers and replace it for free or 25% cost, or 50% cost or something like that. I suspect that the majority of batteries will make it well into triple digits.

100mi car that goes 10miles a day will last a lot longer then a 100mi car that goes 80mi every day. Depth of discharge is going to be the killer after heat.

I really don't see how it is different then Ford claiming 47mpg on the Fusion. Sure you can get 47mpg... But not with the heater on forcing the ICE to run, and not with driving on the highway at 80mph.

The Leaf can get 100miles range. But most people will not. Throw in a heater which is by definition the least efficient use of energy and high speed driving, it just isn't going to happen.

 

Sure. And what happened to that 80% at 5yrs/60K miles that we were reading/hearing about? Many of us Leaf owners have already come to the consensus that this warranty means absolutely nothing. It is merely a ploy on the part of Nissan to downplay the seriousness of poor pack performance in southern climates due (most likely) to lack of a TMS. Also, thirty percent of 70 miles is 21 miles, bringing the range down to 49 miles, which could be argued as being on the optimistic side of things. I get between 4.2 and 4.5 miles per kWH. Even at 4.5 m/kWH, I have never seen anything close to 80 or 90 miles on a charge. Realistically, I get maybe 60.

 

80% was given based on a "typical" usage profile. The 70% applies to everybody, including extreme users like the Arizonan battery boilers. Basically, they're giving an extreme number to discourage owners from pushing the battery.

If you're 60 miles at 4.5mi/kWh I'd presume you're charging to 80%.

 

I agree that most will not need a replacement within the new capacity warranty, but those in AZ, TX and other hot climate areas might, if the owners keep them that long.

As for "47 mpg" on the Fusion Hybrid, well, that's an EPA rating. The EPA rated range of the Leaf is 73 miles. To tell people "100 miles average" for range on a Leaf is nuts. That's setting up people for disappointment.

Yes, 100 miles of range on the Leaf is possible but definitely impossible if it's all highway driving and impossible for most unless the driver's a hypermiler. In Tony Williams' Phoenix range test, the furthest any car went at 62 mph (64 mph indicated on the speedometer) was 79.7 miles. He finally did get a control Leaf (almost brand new w/138 miles on the odo) to run the same course and it made it 83.2 miles.

Yep. And at In Race to Market, Nissan's Electric Car Takes Shortcuts | Autopia | Wired.com, they said

At

, he also said 70 to 80% capacity after 10 years, starting around the 1 minute mark.

Interestingly, Mark Perry "retired" from Nissan a few months ago. I heard the news when I was at Alt Car Expo in Santa Monica.

 

When the car was being hyped, it was stated to have a range of 100 miles, with claims as high as 130 miles reported. Needless to say, those of us who came from driving in such a way as to regularly see 50+ mpg from our Prius' (all things being equal) figured that our driving would transition well into the higher end of that 100 mile claim. Of course, after the cars were being delivered and all of those caveats regarding state of charge, charging to 80%, not using QC, etc. started to filter through the noise, all of a sudden it was maybe 70 or 80 miles, then the EPA rated it at 73 miles from 100% to 0% ( a no-no according to warranty), and now it is down to a realistic 70 miles tops for many, if not most drivers. Nissan knows full well that had they claimed the car had a 70 miles range and that the 5yr/80% claim really meant 80% of 70 miles from the onset, they wouldn't have sold nearly as many.

To answer your presumption- No. The 60 mile range is at 100% charge with some freeway driving at 64mph. In other words- typical, yet soft-footed metropolitan driving in Houston, Tx. Another thing to consider about this 60 mile range is that QC stations are not at every corner. That 60 miles becomes a lot shorter if you have to plan your route to include a QC charge session that may or may not be within or close to the route itself.

But to address the subject at hand again, as an owner of two Leafs, I am not impressed by this public relations ploy. It does nothing when you read through the details.

 

And Nissan (at least their reps at 2 different auto shows so far) are STILL claiming "100 miles" of range "average". That garbage needs to stop.

But yes, 100 miles and 130 miles are achievable (130 miles being an extreme case) but not if it involves highway speeds. It needs to be confined to low speed driving by a really good hypermiler and virtually no heater or AC use.

 

Will they still have the fine print that anyone who regularly exposes the car to conditions that allow the internal temperature to reach 125 degrees will not be covered?

Basically anyone living in 90-100 degree summer cities who parks outside is screwed.

 

I don't know what the new terms are but what you're stating about the old terms isn't right either. From https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/NissanLEAF/2012/2012-NissanLEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf,

 

Yea thats the line. One of the reasons I didn't get the Leaf. I can imagine the battery losing capacity and them trying to blame it on the heat. Thats 24 consecutive hours?

 

The last 6 months have taught me that I can live pretty much within a 40 mile daily range so the leaf's 70 mile range seems more than adequate. my town is pretty well suited to supporting evs like the leaf in that we have lots of inexpensive charging stations along with plenty of car2go and zipcar opportunities for longer trips. the low maintenance of an ev is part of the appeal as well.

my brother just picked up a leaf last week. for him part of the appeal was the limited range, for his teenagers. having your teens on a bit of a tether and a charging time imposed curfew are just bonuses for a parent.

 

I've heard there's capacity loss over time, but it really starts to sink in hearing owner's reports about it. 73 mile range on new battery, $35k+ cars, wait for tax credit (?). No wonder Volt outsold Leaf here 2 to 1.

I don't see too much happening for Rav, Focus, Fit, iMi, EVs ... few thousand sales this year.

Wouldn't be surprised if Model S outsells all other all-electrics in '13.

 

except when the

teen goes a bit to far and has to call dad for a tow.

 

at least he is within 70 miles and not on the other side of the state line.

 

I believe that's 24 consecutive hours.

Well, in your area, it won't get that hot or stay that hot for 24 hours at a time, if at all.

However, I think Nissan should stop sale of the Leaf in Phoenix, Texas, Palm Springs, etc. and other hot climate areas and make it lease only in those areas. People in those areas are still going to be unhappy w/the rapid battery degradation and Nissan being obligated only to restore the battery to 9 bars (70%) capacity within that warranty period.

 

Google search on 'environmental impact of electric cars' brings up soo many recent articles, many of them based on a recent Norwegian study of life cycle analysis between EVs and conventionals.