Official: GM Quietly Drops Hybrid Pickups; Are SUVs Next?

Perhaps BMW and Mercedes see the writing on the wall. Our middle class - which are expected to be the lion's share of the buyers - continue to shrink in wealthiness as the economy shrinks . There are only so many people that can afford a 300 mile Tesla or pickups optioned with $5000 Rhube Goldberg's complexity in our present day economy.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

My opinion is Hybrid and a Pickup Driver is like oil and vinegar. Not much improvement in MPG and they most likely don't care about lowering emissions since they drive a pickup. Most like towing capacity also.

 

Just so we can stop calling it government motors
No more Government Motors: US selling GM shares - US News and World Report

 

... in the next year or so....

 

Taxpayers paid $33 each.

That's quite a loss.

 

Funding GM, Food Stamps,Welfare, Unemployment, Wars, Social Security, Medicare, Obama Care, Foreign Aid, VA benefits, School pensions, Gov pensions,Public Schools, Bridges, Tunnels, Roads, that is what we do in America. Many will say our taxes are high and many will say they are low. Who knows what is right or wrong. Perhaps the guy who says we should not help GM is the guy who is on Food Stamps and Welfare and gets Gov help for health Care. My take is GM is probaly not the ugliest chapter in the Book of Government Loans.

 

I don't personally recall it being promoted for small cars and I haven't tried to validate that claim.

The 2-mode design makes the most sense where it's extra planetary gearset is utilized to create greater and more efficient pass through of engine power for high load situations like towing. A 1-mode design like the HSD is a better solution for smaller cars.

Here's a comparison of improved efficiency of the regular vs. hybrid Cadillac Escalade and the regular 350 vs hybrid 450h LX Lexus crossover.

City Combined Highway
43% 31% 28% (Escalade)
78% 43% 12% (LX 350/450h)

Here's a comparison of EPA MPG estimates for hybrid Escalade with a 6L V8 vs. the roughly equivalent LX 570 with a 5.7L V8 (no hybrid available):

City Combined Highway
18 21 23 (Escalade Hybrid)
12 14 17 (LX 570)

Here's a comparison of improved efficiency of the hybrid Cadillac Escalade and the regular LX 570:

City Combined Highway
50% 50% 35% (Escalade Hybrid)

Nope.

The real distinguishing point is the power capability of the battery pack. The PiP and Energi packs are too small to support full EV capability so they use an existing power split transmission and have architectural limitations on their EV capability which match their battery power limits.

The Volt has a large enough battery to drive as a full EV and therefore has a variant power split transmission which allows the large motor to directly drive the car without architectural gear ratio and motor RPM limitations.

 

I pointed out that it couldn't be any smaller, resulting in a cost, size, and weight burden.

 

I am one of the guys who says we should not help GM and I'm not on Food Stamps or Welfare.

All the programs you laid out here are the problem. The fact that there are so many is the problem. Pointing the finger somewhere else and minimizing things by saying "well that one is uglier", does not dismiss the fact that this one is still ugly.

This type of logic reminds me of sixth grade when the second person to cut in the lunch line got caught. When confronted by the teacher he said "well, Johnny did it first". For which the teacher calmly replied, "Johnny doing it first doesn't make it ok for you". The fact is; they're all ugly.

My take is GM is one of the ugliest b/c it will never get better. All we did was pay for executive salaries and union pensions. GM will fail again. Their customer base is old and the younger generation is not flocking to the company (quite the opposite). Their marketing strategy is flawed and doomed to failure. I rank them (GM's management) right up there with Kmart. When was the last time you heard your child say "I'm going to Kmart"?

 

I agree GM needs to evangalize the young crowd.
I also worked every day of my life and found my own way.
At some point I will get Social Socurity and Medicare and I'm funding my own pension (401K) but that is a long way away and it will most likely not be that much as we get into cutting Gov expenses because the day of financial reality is fast approaching.

I hear GM sells more cars on the Globe than anyone or Toyota and GM are neck and neck. GM's problems are obvious and time will tell if they can expand or ciontinue the contraction. On time they had 70% Global Market Share I believe in the 50's. Not any more. My fatherw as a GM buyer for years but he also had his share of car problems. he move dto Toyota later in his life and never regreted the decision.

 

I pointed out that the Volt transmission is designed to support EREVs with 16 kWh and larger batteries. Substantially smaller batteries cannot support full power EREV so a simpler 1-mode power split transmission like those in the PiP and Energi make better sense.

As batteries get cheaper and more power/energy dense there will likely be more EREV designs for which a Volt-like transmission design is more optimal.

If GM wants to build a plugin with a smaller pack like those in the PiP or Energi then they should leverage their existing FWD 2-mode which they designed but never used in a product or, better yet, they should design and build a new 1-mode power split and use it in a PHEV Cruze or small crossover.

 

GM dropping the Hybrid is probably a good move. Maybe GM is looking at a car type and quickly deciding if it is profitable or a money loser. No need in holding on to Hybrid Pickups if they can't sell them or make a decent profit on the line.

 

You should point out that while driving his truck is free, driving a Prius would be free and also pay some of his taxes.

I believe the challenge for a truck hybrid system is the advance ICE tech with auto stop/start. They need a certain level of power to do truck things, and their chassis don't lend themselves for big gains in aero. Which means we won't see Prius like gains in fuel economy. With a smaller gap between the two, the hybrid will have to compete on price. A delivery business with high city miles might spring for a hybrid, but most people will be counting the amount of gas the price difference will buy.

The tax credit was $450 on the 4WD and $250WD. A sound bite would be, 'a credit a tenth of the Prius', on a vehicle that cost twice as much.' That credit had no effect on two-mode sales.

Did it even get to the second generation?

The system did give a big improvement in city economy. Didn't look like much on paper, but getting a truck's city near its highway is big. The price was high, but they were also high content trims like the HiHy. It was just that it was a segment swayed by GM's previous anti-hybrid press. Something might of come of it mated to the new engines they have coming out, instead of the aging guzzler they choose.

 

In the Fleet world Buses and some Utility vehicles and Gov vehicles are EV or Gas Powered. Not sure why adoption is not expanding.

 

In the Fleet world Buses and some Utility vehicles and Gov vehicles are EV or NATURAL Gas Powered. Not sure why adoption is not expanding.

 

200,000,000 shares of stock times 5 bucks ....baaaah .... what's a billion among friends. That's just a fraction of a cost for an aircraft carrier ... never mind the maintenance or the crew cost or the stealth fighters on board. It's only paper money anyways. Hell it is even paper anymore ... the feds just transfer more zeros to our local banks. Ain't it a great system? I love it. Oh well at least we're getting something back for the stock.

If the stock sale does go through - then that will be great news. If the stock falls 20 % or more during next year - what then .... like I said above, I'm not sure it matters ... I guess I'm just curious how many more zeros the feds will have to print. I've pulled almost all of my phony-worthless paper money out of the banks & the market anyway, so we can at least get something of value out of it.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

Read the latest news - time to get up to date. Treasury Dept. planning to sell back to GM to shares it holds. //dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/treasury-to-sell-g-m-stake-within-15-months/

DBCassidy

 

This is about GM, stay on topic

DBCassidy

 

I don't know if you noticed, but you are contradicting yourself. You say 6 cylinders can do whatever the V8 does ( and acknowledge the Lexus RX and hy hi are rated for towing) - but then say hybrids aren't tow worthy. We've towed plenty with our lexus rx hybrid. I guess I'm saying I miss the point ... Toyota has already shown it's doable

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

hill,

I think he is saying large V8s are rated for 10,000 lbs, hybrid V8s are rated for 6,000 lbs and V6 are rated as high as 6,000 lbs.

towing 10,000 is quite a bit different than 6,000 and I doubt you have towed more than 6,000 with an rx hybrid.

I pretty much max out my lx450 at 5,000, 6 cyl inline.