Official: GM Quietly Drops Hybrid Pickups; Are SUVs Next?

parting is such sweet sorrow

 

any news on Toyota's ?

Toyota to Expand Hybrid Offerings Including Tundra Pickup Trucks - Automotive News - Page 1

 

good riddance. gm's hybrid system is terrible. all it did was caused further hatred for hybrid technology by the truck community. they couldn't tow, they couldn't haul, and they barely gained any mpg. im looking forward to seeing what toyota and ford cook up as far as truck hybrids go...

 

Expensive, over-engineered, not as efficient as hoped, and promises of major improvements from the next generation.

That sounds familiar.

 

From what I've been reading the new direct injection engines with cylinder deactivation offer about the same fuel economy as the old hybrid for a lot less money. I'd be willing to bet that a year or two into the new generation truck they offer something slick.

 

Near as I can tell, GM can make an electric vehicle but they have yet to figure out how to marry it with an efficient engine, drive train:

• volt - reasonable, short range EV, and inefficient gas drivetrain
• BAS - medium, low gas drivetrains with exceptionally weak electric

Worse, they seem to have spent a lot of time anti-marketing Toyota's system.

I met a GM engineer who was working on the Saturn two-mode hybrid before it got canceled. There was nothing wrong with his skills and attitude but he had to put up with GM management who thought the most important thing was to have the word "hybrid" incorporated in the body paint. . . . idiots!

Bob Wilson

 

Remember the motto back when Two-Mode was being developed? It was "Better than Prius". When the technology didn't deliver, focus was simply diverted elsewhere.

Now that there won't be any Two-Mode pickups produced anymore, we can see pressure building again. It doesn't take long reading comments from Volt enthusiasts to confirm that. There are plenty of comparisons to Prius that use words like "superior", "inferior", and "pathetic".

As for the shift now, there's a huge effort to downplay expectations. Rather than acknowledging GM's extensive experience with motors & batteries, it's pushing the mindset of first generation and early adopter.

It's lack of concern for the big picture that worries the most. Surging sales of small traditional vehicles don't matter to supporters. GM can sell all the Malibu, Cruze, and Sonic they way. As long as more Volt are purchased than plug-in Prius, they just plain don't care about anything else.

 

It is also instructive to see how many of the EV1 and Volt engineers have left GM and are showing up at Tesla, Fisker, and other hybrid and electric companies. There is nothing wrong with GM engineers that changing the management could not fix. Perhaps one more bankruptcy is needed.

Bob Wilson

 

That sounds like you want the American taxpayer to walk away from their investment in GM?

 

If you look who owns the GM stock - you'll see it's the feds. So they can do whatever they see fit with their company. The feds don't have to make money they just have to spend it. If they want to banko their company (again) in order to discharge their company's debt then that's their prerogative. That's the beauty of debt ... you can legally discharge it. Let GM vendors - service providers - beware.
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SGH-I717R ? 2

 

It hasn't been a year since the Ford partnership was announced, so I don't expect anything big yet.

Let's face it, no hybrid today is good at doing truck work.
GM mated two-mode to their 6+L V8, without cylinder deactivation. An engine that without the hybrid could reach the 5 ton range in towing, but was reduced to 6000lbs with the hybrid. Some V6 trucks could do that. Granted, it probably got better fuel economy doing so. Too bad it was only offered in a pricey 4 door configuration.

To get a competitive tow rating in the Highlander and RX hybrids, Toyota had to use the thirstier V6 and install AWD. They had to do that to even offer a tow rating at all. For most people actually towing with such vehicles, the 4 cylinder model would likely work and cost thousands less.

 

It's certainly true that Toyota has generally done a better job tuning their engine and hybrid transmission characteristics to match up well.

But, I'm not sure that's true of all their hybrid offerings since the Lexus hybrid models typically have lackluster mpg for whatever reason (poor engine match, tuning for power over efficiency).

No car has yet come close to the finely tuned and balanced Prius Liftback powertrain.

Other than EPA estimates, I have seen little real world evidence so far that the Ford Energi models (with Prius-like hybrid design) are getting better hybrid mpg than the Volt (even the non-Energi hybrids seem to be struggling).

Yes, eAssist is unimpressive but it's also relatively cheap to implement.

I totally agree that GM marketing and market-based decision making on hybrid technology has been terrible. Management has been clueless. Contrary to the trash talk here, I see nothing much wrong with 2-mode itself and the comments and reviews from actual owners that I have seen have been generally positive. At least according to EPA estimates, it did improve mpg by 30% or so but it was inherently designed to match with existing engines designed for power and not efficiency as the highest goal. The targeting of large pickups and SUVs was a marketing blunder since owners of such vehicles are generally not interested in hybrid technology. Low sales meant high pricing premiums which reinforced low sales.

I predict GM is going to build a 1-mode input-split transmission aimed at small and mid sized passenger cars. They pretty much have to.

 

I predict failure by GM.

 

I'm not convienced yet that some form of hybrid technology can't give pickup and utility vans a significant mileage improvement. I suspect if the business tax incentive, $.45/mi. last time I checked, may be subsidizing the true cost of inefficient vehicles.

My thinking is either eliminate the mileage deduction or tie it to vehicle performance makes a lot of sense. When the true cost of gasoline has to be weighted against the up-front cost of hybrid technology, more folks will make the right decision.

Bob Wilson

 

I guarantee you the business tax incentive is affecting this. I have a friend who has no concern about mileage b/c of this (drives a 94 truck). He's always bragging to me that all his miles are free so he doesn't need a Prius.

I'm convinced that hybrid tech can improve mpgs on a pickup or van but I'm also convinced that poor management (that GM is known for) will not allow them to lead the way on this.

 

You get to keep the money if you save it. $0.45 is quite fair as a tax deduction for maintenance, depreciation, insurance, and fuel.

You will hear a great outcry from people that actually need trucks for work, if you try to push through a plan where a prius gets a bigger tax deduction than a truck. The biggest way you can promote a switch is to raise the cafe standards which the government is doing, and implement a higher oil tax which the government is not doing.

The problem with the truck hybrid system (2-mode) is it is too expensive. GM is likely working on a new, different, less expensive system as are toyota and ford.

Two mode did not get the full efficiency boost because it lacked a more efficient engine. A modern 4 cyclinder or 6 cylinder di turbo engine, or something like skyactiv can do this. The cost of the hybrid system also needs to be lower. A hybrid system like bmw's with a e4wd might serve that need.

 

Two mode hybrid enjoyed the same tax credit as Prius did. Yet, it failed.

I think the inability to improve, is to blame. Prius improved though each generation.

 

That was in response to bob's comment to give a bigger business mileage deduction for more efficient cars.

It was the cost of the system according to gm's partners bmw and Mercedes

 

Let's not forget that Two-Mode was heavily promoted as a solution for all, only starting with the larger vehicles then working its way down to the small. Expectations were rapidly changed when it was discovered how inefficient the system actually was.

Volt also has a scaling limitation, unable to be offered with a smaller battery-pack due to the inefficiency of the engine & transmission. For that matter, supporting a larger vehicle body is also a challenge as well (capacity, cost, etc).