Ford: Driving style determines C-Max hybrid's fuel efficiency

wow, they went off the cliff fast. and not the fiscal one.

 

So if you drive it exactly like the EPA test you will get EPA mileage. So if you drive it differently, on an actual road for example you won't. I get it now.

Sorry, just me trying to be funny.

 

It seems that manufacturers are being forced to produce vehicles that perform well against the EPA designed tests.

If a manufacturer designs against another criteria, like real world mpg, they could find themselves out of compliance with their regulator and falling short of the mandated fleet mpg imposed on them by the federal government.

 

I hadn't thought of that reason. They may think they are between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand they know that in the real world most people won't get these numbers but on the other hand the government is requiring them to hit higher and higher numbers so they build for the test. When people complain they are not getting the numbers the manufacturers can blame the government and say that people should contact the government to get those standards lowered so they don't have to optimize for the tests(or they can just blame the test the government makes them do).

For now though Ford is blaming the customers. That isn't going to fly.

 

I don't think the standards should be lowered, rather the tests should be designed, and validated, to reflect real world criteria.

At the moment, the EPA's goal for testing seems to be "repeatable" tests for "comparing" vehicles, rather than reflecting the various diving profiles of the nation's drivers.

 

I don't think they should be lowered either but I think the manufacturers do.

 

I agree with your first statement. However, I am curious about your second.
I don't believe anyone could create a single set of tests that would reflect "various driving profiles". You really can only give, at best, an average driving profile.

I believe the current EPA tests are much better than the old ones. Could they be further improved? Sure. But I don't think you will ever have a single reference number that will cover the wide variety of driving profiles out there.

 

I think the manufactures just want a level playing field within their markets. The challenge may be that different manufactures operate in slightly different markets with significantly different playing fields. Making a product for California is different than making a product for China.

 

The work they did with drive cycles to evaluate the PHEV-10 and PHEV-40 is a step in the right direction. Combining lab style testing with a comprehensive library of drive cycles along with "drive styles" could help. Regional ratings could help as well. Comparing vehicle performance within the context of East Coast work commuting would yield a different result than comparing vehicle performance in a Florida retirement village.

 

Agreed. However, just how detailed/long do you think the "EPA rated efficiency" can be before the general public's eyes glaze over?

Reports such as the union of concerned scientists "State of Charge" is wonderful. But there is no way you can shoehorn it into a sticker on a window.

 

That's what the QR code would be for A driver could have their own driving profile evaluated and then when they scan the QR code it would give them a personalized "EPA rating" for the combination of their own profile applied to the vehicle.

 

I don't think ford is blaiming the customer.

Let's face it they are responding the CR that is driving differently than the test, then claiming somehing fraudulent. EPA clearly spells out YMMV. CR gets worse than EPA with hybrids, but pretends the fords are special this time to make headlines.

Ford today seems to be blaimning the EPA. They should be blaiming CR for claiming that hybrid drivers drive like CR But enough of that. EPA is not real world. Ford should not have been using EPA mileage so much in their PR on the c-max and fusion.

Ford needs to back track and be too technical because it was relying on epa numbers which are not real world numbers. Hyundai cheated on their epa numbers, but CR praised how they did on the CR test. Also not real world.

Let's kill the fiction. If you are going 70+mph on cruise control a hybrid doesn't help fuel economy. If you are going much slower the ford and toyota system will help a lot as long as your trips aren't short.

 

I have seen now several quotes from Ford executives saying that in effect if driven properly you will get the claimed mileage, if you don't you won't and that was before the CR article.

 

I don't think that is unique to C-Max drivers.

Help - Mileage Sucks | PriusChat

 

The one thing I found on the sticker for the Fusion/Cmax. No You may get within this range anywhere on the sticker. It says 47 city, 47 highway, 47 combined.

Nowhere does it say you could expect to get within this range like I show on the 2010 and my F150. The F150 says you can expect to get within 15 MPG to 23 MPG, on average expect 18 MPG. Much more realistic too, because thats right about what it got.

Very misleading IMO, which is where a lot of the complaints will be leading.

I dont expect the Fusion to get 47 MPG everywhere I go, but I do expect to get at LEAST within 4-5 MPG of EPA. So far that isnt happening, more like 9 below EPA. Heck my 2010 is doing better meeting 47 MPG than the new one is. It has 36 highway 41 city 38 combined. Real world, 37 highway 43 city 39 combined.

 

I know, but I was referring to the comment about Ford not blaming the customer. It seems to me they are.

 

I don't think so because the official numbers are CAFE.

Stop building to the test and they might lose some sales because the headline EPAis lower than the master calibrators.

 

The numbers on the F150 sticker weren't a range you can expect to get within. They are the results of city and highway tests, and an average base on 55/45 city/highway. They aren't a range of results for a single, repeated test.

The Prius has a 2 MPG difference between city and highway. Which, at its fuel economy, is a 4% difference. Ford getting the same city and highway on the sticker isn't unreasonable. Assuming Ford ran the test right, the EPA retest will return the same results, or near enough to be within a margin of error. The YMMV disclaimer covers the idea that there is a range of possible results.

Now, I think the number on the sticker should go into the tenths place at least. The Fusion with auto start/stop is rated 1 higher than the one without in city and highway, but has the same combined on the sticker. More significant figures would clear up such funny numbers. While giving the consumer a better idea of which of the lower fuel economy vehicles is better.

 

The problem with this sticker is you have no clue of what real world expected MPG can be, where on the F150, at least you have a range that the truck does fall in based on how you drive, conditions, load, etc. and the F-150 I had did fall into that range. It ranged from 15 MPG to 24 MPG. Not much of a range when its 47.

Ford did finally respond to my rants on their FB pages, which is good because it links right to Corporate, which should help get my car working as it should. I believe that properly setup, the Fusion can get 47, highway is skeptical, but that also depends on the term "highway". Rural highways are normally 55 MPH, so if based on that, then 47 may be possible. City driving, I can easily see getting 47, even with my car not performing properly I did still manage 45 MPG yesterday in city driving 35-45 MPH range.