Is the pip the only prius with lithium?

My wife doesn't want the pip for her next car. The main thing I like is the extra efficiency of the larger lithium batteries to give better mpg and better extended ev than the non pip.

Are any of the other prius non pip offerings available with the larger distance lithium instead of NiMH?

Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
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Figured, I hate buy buy exactly what I already have... The 2010s are fitted for the lithium already, I saw the cases myself in the Detroit debut of the 2010 prius gen 3.
Surprised that's not an option.
Hard to say there is a battery shortage now when so many competitors are now using lithium. Prius is falling behind. If they are going to sell several different types of cars, they all should get progressive updates otherwise phase them out.

Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
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Other than poor shelf life and being rather heavy they are ok.... The former is not a concern for frequently used hybrids but the latter is
Lithium is capable of tremendous amperage discharge quickly as well as recharge.

Not much completion imo for the price range... Everything else is substandard wanna be's trying to catch up... But in the specific area of batteries. Prius is dragging. Their marvelous engineering on the rest of the car holds them in the game.
The public is finally educated and trust prius cause they have climbed the long hill and paid the price.

Once the public sees them everywhere, the car in essence becomes a moving advertisement.

Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
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That's makes good sense John to a point. I know your extremely informed and I respect you as the chief prius guru due to your extensive history and very valuable writings that you make available to us all on your website.

But it seems It always cost to change form factors but tesla uses the very common 18650 lithium ion "up to 7000" total to give 85 kwh with 300 mile range for a nearly 5000 lb car or offerings as low as 40kwh. Heck I use those in most of my lights!


By making the battery warranty unlimited, as with the tesla premium models it takes away risk.... The point is they "are" available and they work. The small size of each cell bathed in refrigerant or heating liquid maintain optimal heat/cooling dispersion.

While Toyota has led the pack, there's nothing wrong in taking cues from someone who found a cheaper more robust way to do it.

Where it gets expensive is when they tool and die proprietary form factors.
They must build the battery packs themselves "as tesla does" to keep cost down because it's too expensive to have others do it. "one reason government contracts are so rediculous"

I just get this sinking feeling like I get when I buy a computer and I know it's already obsolete when I walk out the door.

Heck I remember back when I bought my 2010 and I went to the Detroit debut. I was heart broken to find they had not moved to lithium.... 3 years later and they still haven't.

Guess I have to buy a pip or just suck it up and like it!

Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
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You points are valid, but there are different paths to the same destination.

I just think the 18650 battery could be the key to successful long range abilities.

When I reviewed the tesla youtube video and saw that the battery bank is composed of many of those 18650 cells my first thought was "flashlight batteries... That's cheesy and looks homemade". But after seeing they control the manufacturing themselves and the QC, and that the small component was perfect for heat dispersion when bathed in coolant , I then felt better.
Then I thought "7000 cells"?.... That's a lot of room for error, but then noticed they can offer unlimited warranty on the battery due to its simple and inexpensive form factor to fix should it fail.

I'm still not excited about that many cells, but any 85 kwh battery is gonna have a whopping # of cells or it will be proprietary and extremely" like military Level" expensive.
Even a 1000 cells would be 8.5 kwh which is twice the size they currently have in their pip "4.4 kwh"

I respect that Toyota is often the laggard due to their high QC... Going cutting edge is risky, cause if something fails it tarnishes your good name.

Toyota has an excellent reputation because they thoroughly study an issue before jumping forward.

Toyota's boo boo with the gen 2 HID headlights frequently going out is a good example of bad technology they bailed an as they went back to Halogen for the gen3. It tarnished their name... But they had so many brownie points the public forgave them.

But so far the 18650 lithium cell seems to be a hit. They had a few issues with the roadster early on but now it's a go.

I don't know how much Toyota would want to charge to add lithium "the gen 2 battery case is already set up for it" to get more regen storage, more ev, and even greater get up and go performance, but if it has to be the same as the pip, then you might as well get a pip!

Toyota's present lithium is working for them but apparently is very expensive to manufacturer. Changing to the 18650 cells could change that unless their engineers won't consider it or think it a bad idea, or they just don't want to be a copy cat.



Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
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Interesting indeed! Good job reading between the lines!
The Toyota RAV4 EV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediasecond gen rav 4-EV could be a winner! 100 mile range with a 41 kwh battery with a mpge rating that beats the pip by 5 points!

A prime example of what a larger battery can do with existing technology.

Makes you wonder what would happen if even half that was added to the pip?
With light weight lithium they could do it.

Seems they are not messing with their bread and butter standard prius and adding their lithium to the other markets.
Bummer....

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I do see there's lots of debate about thus issue Nickel Metal Hydride Batteries Outperform Existing LiIon Tech [Archive] - CleanMPG Forums

NiMh is more robust in some respects, but in others not.
Real use is often different the partial facts.
What I mean is, real life is physics, and it includes all the facts into real life experience, whereas its easy to get sidetracked with discussing facts on paper that do not.

I guess the properties we aren't talking about is that in order for toyota to not damage the NiMh, it can only charge to a portion of full and likewise on the discharge thereby shunting the batteries true abilities as we like to discuss on paper.
The lithium is able to basically fully charge and a near full discharge thereby utilizing full abilities of the density of the battery.
It also doesn't lose 20 percent of its charge the first day and 2-4 percent /day thereafter like NiMh.

All i know is I have tools... NiMh doesn't perform near as well as my lithium ion stuff.

Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
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