I drove a Volt today.

You can't compare regular Prius to Volt/Ampera. You can compare Volt only to PiP. And looking at the numbers, Volt/Ampera are outselling the PiP.

(Apples to apples)

 

From trolling to insulting...

 

Trying to get to the root of the matter.

I have always loved cool high tech gadgets... What better than the very car you drive... Even if you have to plug it in?

Folks buy what they want and won't if they don't want what they buy.

Factors that determine want.....

1. Folks have different lifestyles and needs.
2. Folks are motivated by different drivers. Some fantasize what their friends will say, while others like the latest new techy gadjet. "like I phone buyers"
3. Folks have varying amounts of money and so place different values on each dollar bill.
5. People are insecure creatures.
Trust, reputation, and track record on behalf of the maker goes a long way in assessing the value on an item.

Toyota has always had a phenomenal track record and so now is trusted by the public.
GM has had some bumps and was born from a generation of less than stellar longevity in respect to their products compared to Japanese manufacturers.

It's true even with Toyota's good name it took a while for the term "hybrid" to be accepted and even longer before people didn't run when they heard the term "plugin".
Toyota used to even advertise the Prius as "not a plugin" to not scare people away.

Now you have GM that truly is a giant with Americans, yet it's scary to trust them with cutting edge technology and think they will still be there for you 8 years from now.

They are flaky, they went under and was saved by the government.
They may bail? They are unstable and up and down as they adjust and figure out their new place in the market.
Do we really trust their engineering?

The acceptable they do have is on the back of the road paved by Toyota and avid buyers loyal to their brand.... And some just hate foreign and will only accept new technology under an American brand.
Yet they have the nerve to think they are equal and charge even more for simpler technology.

They act like an arrogant teenager new to the world.

And I just still can't get over them taking the 7500 tax credit and adding it to the price to take the bounty themselves rather than passing it to the consumer to fuel excitement for the cause of getting ev off the ground.

Let's face it, the technology they are using is much much simpler than the Prius yet they act like it's costing them so much?

Why America can't make something good without it costing a fortune is for another discussion.

We have gotten spoiled.
GM spent so many years selling the same vehicle over and over every year with a different look on the same frame and same motor, same old transmission, same brakes etc, that now because they have to actually do something new and retool and redie it has to cost a fortune and we are supposed to be all excited and just buy it?

It's just sad we spend our time partying while Japanese are studying.
It cost more to build something here with less engineering skill.
Because of high paid union workers who show up to do only what they have to to get a check?
Where is our spirit of excellence and honor?

Heck we can't even get people to go to work in this country unless they can have a job where they get paid lots to do little... Unfortunately everyone can't have government jobs.

Sorry, I'm born and raised here. But I trust foreign engineering more than the slight of hand of American who try to hype up and sell you snake oil at a premium when it's only wd-40.

Knock 15 grand off the price then we'll talk.!




SCH-I535 ? 2

 

Well, yes, but we also hear how they are losing money on every Volt they sell etc... They have to pay down the R & D expenses.

Huh? The plugin Prius is obviously a bit more complex than the regular Prius because they added a new and larger battery and it's rechargeable so it has extra electronics to control that and extra wiring and sockets. A Volt has everything that a plugin Prius has plus an extra 3 clutches in its power split transmission, fancier battery cooling, electric cabin heating and OnStar telematics. So the Volt is actually a little more complex, not simpler.

 

Does the Cruze have a price range the the general public can afford? YES
Does the Cruze make $$$ for GM? YES
Does the Cruze have a larger market appeal than the Volt? YES
Does the Cruze need expaining to the general public on justifying the purchase price? NO

DBCassidy

 

What do I think there could be for penalties of heavy discounting in the extreme short term? Since we heard every excuse imaginable by Volt supporters for year #1, the response could be the same... wait until year #2. Of course, now some of those same people are saying the next generation.

I'd say there may not be any, since there really needs to be some extra effort to get the upfront people familiar with the differences between the regular and plug-in model. It's not like Volt, where there's nothing direct to compare to or mix up with. The differences are so easy to accept (the sign of a well planned out upgrade), it takes hands on experience from salespeople to understand & convey the benefit. It's surprising easy to miss vitals of design, since attention is often focused on other aspects of the purchase. After all, in the past people new to hybrids often didn't know what to ask. Now that's the case with plug-in hybrids... and the education of sales staff often gets overlooked by critics. Think about how easy it is for a salespersion to sell a regular model of Prius instead. Selling more of the plug-in to customers specifically wanting to jump on the opportunity to own one will help change that.

Remember the initial success of Prius? Toyota was able to seek out those buyers back then. They targeted highly interested consumers, rather than doing a nationwide launch initially. GM hoped to follow in those same footsteps too. Trouble is, the market is profoundly different now. For Prius, there's countless online references already, making detail about the plug-in model very difficult to fine. For Volt, the opportunity to educate was instead used to flaunt awards and brag about performance. Toyota isn't going to follow that path. They are now seeking out those with strong interest in the plug-in. Seeing a dozen 2012 models now quietly be delivered to one dealership in Minnesota seems to confirm that.

Watch closely. As we get closer to Earth Day, the excitement will build. Year #2 for the plug-in Prius, which starts then, will be one to capitalize upon... no hype about an expensive approach like Volt. What Toyota offers is configured for the masses. The incentive to increase sales as year #1 comes to a close should help confirm it... just by the simple matter of seeing who actually takes advantage of the chance to buy. To be a penalty, purchases would be limited to enthusiasts. To be a true gain, purchases will be dominated by those from middle-market who would have otherwise just bought a regular model instead.

That's more than just a bit. It also makes the arguments of major production-cost in the near future quite unrealistic. Yet, those on other forums just brush that aside and focus on the drive experience instead... hence some of the attitudes encountered here about expectations still being rose-colored.

 

JMD, It seems you have not been sincere in your discussion and have not bothered to read any of the references that have been posted to help you learn something about the Volt aside from the pre-election bashing of GM/Volt. Instead you seem to want to continue to repeat false information and deny your own math abilities.

Are recent Prius owners so afraid of the Volt and disappointed in their blind purchase of a Prius that they have to defend their decision by burying their head in the sand and mumbling Rush Limbaugh rants to themselves on PriusChat?

Prius owners used to be known as fairly sophisticated buyers, but then pious a$holes blocking traffic lanes and posers following the lead of their pop celebrity idols.

If Prius Chat is any indication, we have a new group of American bashing Rush Limbaugh educated gasoline addicts taking over the Prius flag.

 

John.. don't presume that JMD or DB are representative of PriusChat.. this is a great forum with many good people -- but its open so a few outliers to be expected. Even if JMD is playing ostrage, and maybe it is a defense mechanism/sub-conscious attempts to rationalize his 2012 prius purchace as better than the Volt and make him/herself feel better about it. But it still leaves a thread for others to learn from.... seeing irrational prius owners making irrational arguments is, I think, actually good for the Volt.. if normal prius readers see that they know it and will think the volt may have something.

 

Good point. The vast majority of PriusChat members are rational, after all they bought a Prius at one time or another.

Has DB been posting in this thread as well? How funny. That explains some of JMD's mis-informed postings.

 

I presumed DB was posting since I saw these

 

With all of the incentives around and cash bonus from GM plus 0% financing I am seriously considering buying a Volt! Someone talk me out of it. lol

 

Really? That would be a fast trade in from a 2012 Prius or are you replacing a different vehicle?

I guess the HOV lane access could make the trade worthwhile from a Prius to a PHEV.

 

I'm not sure which vehicle. My girlfriend needs a new car to replace her 2006 Rav4 and we spent the weekend looking at upscale SUVs like the Audi Q5. I don't like the idea of spending $51k on a brand new vehicle that only gets 24mpg. I'm trying to talk her into a Volt but she wants something more versatile. Now she is open to me getting the Volt instead as long as I can show it makes sense and that I won't lose a ton. I got a really great deal off MSRP on my Prius and my interest rate is only 2.9% so I'm not sure it would hurt too much.

 

It isn't simpler. Maybe if it had been a true serial hybrid, simpler might the case.

And what they charge is a fair price. A top of the line Cruze will run you 24 to 25 thousand dollars. The Volt has more amenities and technology. Plus the cost of light weight materials, electric motor, inverter, charger, and thermal management system.

Then there is the battery. It is 16KWh is size with 288 cells. Guestimates at the time the Volt entered production had the cost as high as $14,000. Prices have drop since then, but without the $7500 incentive there wouldn't have been a high enough demand for the various companies to invest in improving and reducing costs of automotive traction batteries.

GM would love to sell the Volt for $15,000 if they could. People are buying them anyway. If you want a plug in hybrid for that low, the Prius PHV is going for about that much with discounts and tax credits in some areas. It has a smaller battery and less EV range though.

 

Would the new Toyota/Tesla RAV 4 EV work since you are in Ca? Not to talk you out of a Volt but... my oldest son worked on that product.

 

Well I guess simpler is how you look at it... I'm thinking of engineering cost and expertise to "invent" new technology.

The synergistic properties of blending the parallel power train between gas ice and electric motor is amazing if you study it.

Heck 20 years ago I took existing technology and built a hydroelectric system that made 1680 watts 24/7 and it still works to this day and I didn't even know what I was doing and I had no electrical training.
24 volts at 70 amps 140 psi water pressure developed from 320ft of head, went into 6000lbs lead calcium batteries with two heart interface inverters cascaded together to give 120v AC with 5000 watt continuous ability and 20000 watt surge abilities.

I had a 24 volt military 4 cylinder generator like they drop out of planes with a parachute as emergency backup should the system fail.

Other than a few bells and whistles, is the volt any different?

If I could do that, chevy/GM doesn't even have to think about it.... There is no complexity.

It's an electric engine with a generator. ... Big deal?

All the other technology is has in braking etc is on the back of Toyota engineering who did the homework and paved the way for others.

Now building a synergistic system as Toyota has built... That I could never do!

Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
Message galaxy s3 with Tapatalk 2

 

A little more than that.

 

You have the impression that the Volt has a simple generator hooked up to a gas engine. However, the Volt actually has a new purpose-built serial/parallel transmission based on a planetary gearset that is similar to the Prius hybrid transmission but differs in some significant ways. The Volt transmission is derived from a GM 2-mode hybrid transmission that the designed for a small SUV and it shares 75% of that earlier transmission's parts. The design is based on GM hybrid technology documented in patents going back to 1995 before Toyota began selling the first generation Prius in Japan in 1997.

 

Ok, I know it's more, just not 40k.
If money is no biggy, I just watched this video

Ruint me entirely. If you really want to salivate all over yourself "for fun" give it a shot.
17 inch screen with full Internet 3g capabilities, plus the dash readout.
Crazy luxurious and sporty.
Unlimited battery warranty "nicer models" ... 300mkle range
Rest is at 8 years 100k.
Not for everyone, and the penny has to be a tad shinier to get it.
You would still need a backup or rent for vacation unless you had a charging station.


Alan... The second mouse gets the cheese!
galaxy s3 with Tapatalk 2

 

It wouldn't. We need both of our vehicles to be able to travel over 300 miles in a single trip. My commute is over 100 miles daily. We're just not ready for a full electric yet.