I drove a Volt today.

I resect that.

 

I respect that. Politics can muddy the waters. I'm the first to say the EV is not about politics but new technology that improves the driver experience.

 

JMD, you seem to have taken the path of a few other mis-informed Prius advocates and forgotten to do some math and read beyond the critics. The Prius used to get the same mis-informed criticism.

You are now just bashing GM. The Volt is an excellent vehicle and if it had a Toyota badge you would probably be praising it.

 

Maybe you think you're points are irrefutable because John doesn't reply to your "points"? He along with others have you on ignore.

 

It came from Reuters. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm sure if you read the gm 10k the financials are there.

 

We are all a product of our experiences. GM fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. It will take a lot for me to buy a GM. I will never buy a BMW. When you're wallet gets date raped by GM you're thinking twice about getting in bed with them again.

 

You realize that Toyota loses money on manufacturing vehicles. Toyota banking is the profitable portion of the business.

 

Excellent Point DBCassidy! Thank you for the help.

 

Fair enough. I left GM for 20+ years. The Volt was just too much to resist.

 

That is not what the article said. Toyota Prius is profitable. Volt costs 96,000 to make and the sticker is half that, and they have a 2 year lease where GM makes only $5000. They closed a plant and spun it as a retool. Why would you retool a new plant? Maybe reduce manufacturing costs . The finances are real and measurable and since it is a public company it is in the public domain. The LG battery supplier closed the Korea plant and is yet to open a USA plant. GM just emerged from bankruptcy. This is a precarious time for GM

 

From a technology point I agree. Volt is a good car.

 

This thread should go on the new Prius Chat Podcast.

 

read :
In defense of the Chevy Volt: How much does it really cost GM? - CSMonitor.com

Ally and USBank are the leasing companies, not GM. They purchase the vehicle from the dealer, claim the $7500 federal tax credit, and finance it for the leasee.

They moved Impala production from Canada to the Hamtramck plant, raising utilization of the facility.

GM Closing Oshawa Consolidated Line, Equinox And Impala Production Moving To United States | The Truth About Cars

Batteries for EVs have been a challenge since the start. LG Chem is part of LG so I think they are well positioned to navigate the growing pains of manufacturing cells for the EV market but I don't follow them.

True, but their woes seem to be more with Europe and the abysmal state of the economy there.

 

Keep in mind that there really is a production level that isn't profitable. Schedules are setup with suppliers & workers for specific volumes. Coming short of that results in a penalty.

True, the "I drove a Volt today" experience can be a very positive one. After all, we know what EV delivers. An expensive vehicle with impressive abilities will always score high reviews, but cost tradeoffs come with consequences.

GM campaigned fiercely against hybrids for years. The only choice now, expressed in their very own words is to "leapfrog" the competition. Unfortunately, that requires all the necessary ingredients all at the correct time... now! In other words, battery cost must be low and consumer demand high. That just plain is not the case. Volt could be considered ahead of its time. But as supporters wait, the competition advances, narrowing the gap.

Disregarding hype of the past and having fallen short of goals, what is there? The approach GM took with Volt doesn't offer the flexibility Toyota took with Prius. We have clear examples of how engine, motor, and battery can be varied. That isn't feasible with Volt. Reduction of battery results in a power & efficiency loss, both of which put it at a disadvantage.

In other words, GM top the top-down approach and Toyota took bottom-up. That fundamental difference is now playing out, proving the one is not as effective as the other with middle-market consumers. Ford will help to confirm this, since they also took bottom-up.

Say all you want about GM bashing. In fact, the feedback can be quite informative. But in the end, it boils down to achieving business-sustaining profit.

 

Well said John.

 

John I hope you realize I give you plenty of likes. The fact that you invested in the EV technology puts you light years ahead of the pick up driving neighbor. The Volt is a good car. You did a great job in convincing me to test drive one in the near future.

 

Now if the Volt had a built in Kurig single shot coffee maker built into the dash I would trade in my Prius for a Volt in a heart beat.

 

Don't diss the pickup driving neighbor The margins from those Tundras and Land Cruisers help pay for the Prius you are driving.

 

I know but at what cost. Perhaps the greatest wealth transfer in history is Americans buying oil from the Middle East and South America and frankly from countries that don't like the USA and what it represents. America oil production will exceed Saudi Arabia by 2020 mostly from fraking (spelling?). Fraking does a number on water and air quality. Driving a Prius or Volt is a wise choice. Not the main driver of my purchase but a good fringe benefit.