Enginer Plan B

You should be very wary of the BMS16D. Keep an eye on cell 16.

The BMS16D draws less power from cell 16 compared to the other 15 cells. It is part of the voltage divider circuit design for measuring the volts value of each cell before being converterted from analogue to digital and the BMS16D was originally designed to be permanently using active balancing and the balancing could not be disabled. So whilst permanent balancing was always active it did not matter. However once the BMS16D went out of calibration (specially if it got overheated) it caused cells to be overcharged and were toasted. At some later point Jack decided to allow the BMS16D to be disabled and it was then supplied with balancing disabled and later increased ADC resolution for newer versions. Now you need to manually balance cell 16 by burning excess charge of cell 16 about every three months. You will find that the BMS16D draws different value current from each cell leading to an unbalanced pack even if you never use the kit. This pretty much sums up the Enginer story in a nut shell. Jack would probably still be in business today and running a successful business if he never supplied the Enginer PHEV kit with a BMS. Which I read somewhere the first version of the Enginer Kit did not have a BMS. There are other reasons for the Enginer downfall but It is my opinion that the BMS16D was the achilles heel that killed his business.

 

We should be able to keep these kits on the road as well even improving them.
If we go forward with a dc/dc converter I'll be sure to let people know.

 

mike

maybe its because you life in a different climate!

colder!

 

can you (or others) suggest alternate BMS solutions for 2 Real Force Batteries (24v 80AH each)?

Note: I'm nonPrius hybrid owner & see miniBMS (distributed cell boards, not centralized, which was discontinued) as one option

 

You need to read and research what you plan on doing.... b4 you do anything. BMS are used to top balance and charge Lifepo4 HV pack. Enginer first PHEV had issue's on balance of LifePo4 among problems.. Top balance (require BMS) and bottom balance of LifePo4 is involved .Read the threads in PC by mrplugin, lopez, and planitere

 

Hello Visitor,

The best option for somebody with no technical understanding/ability is the Pacific EV BMS which is almost a direct replacement of the BMS16D and is plug and play. The PacificEV BMS was designed specifically to replace Enginer's BMS16D as PacificEV also supply (maybe not anymore) the Enginer Kits without the BMS16D. The PacificEV BMS uses top balancing. I have not heard or read anything bad about the PacificEV BMS as I have not actualy used one but maybe there is somebody on this forum who is actually using one and can testify as to how good they are. There is a user on this forum called EPA5EPA who I believe is using a PacificEV BMS with a Enginer Kit.

Electric Vehicle Parts --- PHEV BMS -- Simple BMS for bicycles and Enginer Plug-In Prius Kits

Other than that Dimitri makes a centralised miniBMS (also uses top balancing) which can also be used but requires technical knowledge and ability to replace the BMS16D as a lot of wiring is involved. I use a miniBMS and they work just fine for me and I can testify that they are a quality product. EDITED: The centralised miniBMS is no longer available.

MiniBMS

Good luck.

 

The quote above comes directly from the PacificEV website Pacific Electric Vehicles

 

Hi Lopez,

As well as the BMS I have been using Cell logs to see which cells "spiked" first / highest at the end of charge and then used a risistor to blead off a little charge from that cell ( usually cells 15 / 16 ). Cell 9 is always is the "low" cell at the end of discharge.

Hi Flying White Dutchman

You may be corect about the cooler climate, today it's only 7`C in Yorkshire on my way to work. Not much chance of overheating any thing.

Best regards

Mike

 

Hi all,

I am in the uk and own an enginer ver.5 4kwh system.
Realforce dont seem to support these devices outside of the US, i have sent them an email requesting support in relation to problems that may occur with replacement cells. I eceived an email 2 days ago along with a spec data sheet from a company that is located very near to the realforce company, the data specs are identical which tends me to beleive the cells are the same.

this is the link for what i have seen and the spec data sheet they have sent me.

Soft package li-ion battery_枣庄海帝新能源锂电科技有限公司

life po soft packet 6th battery down the lifepo4 list part number 2f20-08180225

I can attach the data sheet too if i can, not sure how i can do that tho, but it is identical to the real force cell data sheet that i downloaded from their website.

You will find its exactly the same as the realforce data sheet apart from the logo. Not sure if the company is geniune, web site looks ok, or maybe they are an off shoot of realforce.

Additionally, they emailed me today with a price, 24 US dollars each reducing to 22 dollars or more than 10. Also they have quoted a price of 575 dollars for a 48 - 240v converter 5KW, and 525 dollars for a quantity of more than 10.
If they prove genuine, at least a direct replacement may be available outside the US with powin or maybe you guys to source them directly.

Please let ne know how i can atatch the data sheet, i had to download a chinese pdf file to get it to open and display correctly, but adobe done this for me.

Thanks, Anthony.

 

Before you buy individual cells, check if you can find a courier that will carry them. A few notes on the official route : UN 38.3 is a requirement for air transport but check with your courier. Rebuilding Li-ion batteries is a bit dodgey. Rebuilt batteries need to be re-certified, Regulations on Building a Lithium-ion Pack – Battery University. Having said that I hope it works out! Keep us posted.

 

While I am waiting for Fountainhead to finish up the official TÜV Testing, I knocked up a few graphic schematics for the "Box" version. https://www.plughybrid.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Installation-schematic3.pdf. There's a fly through video of the schematic below.

Pull the plug if you think this is a plug! Ha Ha, lol.

 

Enginer in USA (to reitarate/restate) was selling a Version 6. In the past 4 months Enginer USA has stop listing products via ebay or website(direct)...Sales (direct) must contact email(Enginer USA) or contact a North American installer.
FYI
The information on Enginer USA website(maint hosted in Colorado) is a mixed bag of current products/techincal info.
The install tech data there is dated(old) and product support well (unsure)...
For example say I have a 4kw kit and I need to replace a battery bank(24vdc 80ah)
my choices appear to be the following
---contact enginer (email)
---contact installer
---make myself

 

It's actually a bit more dire than you describe.

Enginer US is out of business. No more sales of any products. No more support of any products. No more warranty of any products. Period.

There are some parts available through some of the installers. But stock is diminishing.

We are looking for other options. So depending on what you need you can contact me or any of the others who have identified that they may have stock or alternate ideas for parts.

 

Just throwing this out there.....I really dislike some online purchase methods currently........I have used ebay, amazon,paypal, and some direct websites all had advantages/disadvantages...My real concern is purchasing an being like the third, fourth or fifth party away from the actual manufacture/producer/business enity that represents the product. Some of this is the business model, country culture, oversea production, product demand, etc are to blame. my two cents worth

 

So pm you for kits, parts, and etc.?
Why they maintain that website then.?

 

Not sure why the web site is up, but is is helpful to still have the forums.
Parts inventories are changing. Feel to PM me and I'll let you know if I can get it anywhere.

 

I am curious why a business group(USA ,China, or any1) else does not just sell parts online with some disclaimer,
The PHEV kits could be sold with/without batteries, charger, and so on of combination. The support , install DIY, installer network, and knowledge base that Enginer was weak at best. Reminds me of the first generations of DIY Personal Desktop computers aka the PC and people still recall how the dial up modem was slow.,,

 

Now that Enginer is defunct,
Will there be improvements to the battery pack .Maybe one like this one which I am looking at that sells for $7995 that uses headways, ewert electronics..

Both PICC and Ewert energy have and use custom products/svc for the Gen2 . ,...Ewert energy has several products including Hybrid Energy Manager HEM and the Orion Battery Mgt Sys BMS both are expensive and sold by one USA dealer.

 

For anybody who may be interested I am now selling my Enginer Version 5, 5KW DC Converter. You can find it on Ebay.

UPDATE: Sold on EBay 30/04/2013

 

Enginer was purchased by a gentleman named Dimitri(not from Mini-BMS) and he plans to continue selling kits. He is working to make it the product that it has the potential to become. There are still kits that are new and ready for purchase. They can be purchased directly from Dimitri at Enginer, Luke at Ecotronics or Will at Motors City Motors. They are far from perfect but are 6 versions better than they were.
Plug In Kits can also be bought for Gen2 Prius from Boulder Hybrid in Colorado. PIS is still in business as well.
MCM has worked with Robb at PIS, Paul at Boulder Hybrid and Norm at BMS Plus. We have had good experiences with all.
We are currently working directly with Toyota on future PIP projects and were required to sign a five year non-disclosure. It is not a non-compete so we can continue to do Plug-In conversions for clients that are interested. We are also working directly with Nissan on a range extender for the Leaf.