Replace OEM battery before doing plug-in conversion?

Then perhaps the OP should state "Traction Battery" rather than just "battery" and If Optima batteries are so bad, why have they been the best battery I've ever owned? last the longest? can handle deep cycle/ deep discharge? What you think there so bad because they arn't full of acid and lead??? are your stock options hurting because of Optima cutting into your sales base? perhaps you should inform your company to stop producing crap and start producing something innovative and pave the way in new battery technology.

OPTIMA® Batteries Introduces New Product, Toyota® Prius Battery Replacement

OPTIMA® Batteries now offers a direct fit replacement for the 2004 and newer Toyota Prius®. This new 12-volt AGM battery is the first OPTIMA product to provide a direct fit replacement for the Toyota Prius. The Toyota Prius community, that has had limited battery replacement options in the past, will clearly benefit from this new product.

Please explain your reasoning for the demeaning "optima choir" comment.

 

boone sorry for the thread-jack. but often questions lead to other questions and they aren't always on topic or by the original poster... good luck with your project!

 

It's demeaning? In what way? It's true, isn't it? Optima devotees go to great lengths to inform other Chatters how wonderful their beloved yellow top is - over and over again. The aux battery is unimportant - barely worth mentioning except when it needs to be replaced - just as ALL batteries eventually do.

There's no other car I know of with such a strong aftermarket battery brand awareness and loyalty. That's what I find fascinating and continue to comment on during opportunities like this one.

 

"optima choir" can be interpreted as sarcastic and demeaning. I apologize if I incorrectly interpreted your meaning.

There are people out there that still don't know that Optima made a Yellow top exclusively for the Prius.

Optima devotees go to great lengths to inform other Prius chat members because it is a great product. The aux battery *is* more important than people give it credit. If the aux battery is weak it hurts your gas mileage, makes interior lighting seem dim. A drop in voltage can negatively effect on-board computers etc... the aux battery doesn't start the engine, it controls the computers that allow the vehicle to start run and drive. No aux battery = no go

If you come across a product that is really good, don't you want to spread the word? when you come across any good mods please keep telling more and more people. That's what this forum is for. the whole point is so we all can learn and benefit from each others experiences. - but we should should do it in a manner where we work together, so we mutually benefit.

 

I was quoting for the post about BMW's they use a normal starter motor and alternator. The battery for starter use is designed for high current charge and discharge. Alternators on modern cars can push out 80/100 amps, the maximum recommended for the Optima yellow top I believe is 10 amps the Prius OEM is only 4 amps.

 

Sorry if I misunderstand your post but where do you get the impression that Optimas are not full of acid and lead. There is more lead in the Optima than the OEM battery.

The Prius community in the US may have had limited replacement options but this is not the case in UK and Europe where there is a wide choice of batteries for the Prius at less than 1/3 the price of the Optima and with longer guarantees.

The price of the Optima this side of the pond is the biggest stumbling block for Optima sales. At £183 or $293 it is over £120 above it,s competition.

 

it's that they are not built with the standard technology with wide spaced lead plates and liquid acid splashing around inside the plastic battery box while you are driving or making a high speed turn. They use spiral cell technology that has closely packed immobilized lead plates surrounded by a paste (not a liquid or a gel).

Support - FAQs :: OPTIMA® Batteries

The OPTIMA® SPIRALCELL TECHNOLOGY® provides many features not available in ordinary batteries, such as:

• More plate surface, closer plate spacing and the use of high-purity lead. RESULTING IN: Low internal resistance. This low resistance gives you more power in a smaller box, the ability to recharge much faster, and higher and cleaner voltage characteristics during discharge
• Immobilized plates under compression (locked in place). RESULTING IN: Improved vibration resistance, no shedding of active paste material, reduced gradual loss of power and capacity as the battery ages. This gives you a battery that lasts longer and performs better throughout its life

What is a gel battery? Is OPTIMA®a gel battery?

A gel battery design is typically a modification of the standard lead-acid automotive or marine battery. A gelling agent is added to the electrolyte to reduce movement inside the battery case. Many gel batteries also use one-way valves in place of open vents, which help the normal internal gasses to recombine back into water in the battery, reducing gassing. Generally, gel batteries are less tolerant of high heat and are charged at lower power than traditional or AGM batteries. An OPTIMA battery is neither a gel battery nor regular flooded battery. OPTIMA is a SPIRALCELLTECHNOLOGY AGM battery.

What does deep-cycle mean?

Deep-cycle means using the battery in an application that will typically discharge 60 to 70 percent or more of the battery capacity. A standard automotive battery is an SLI (starting, lighting, ignition) battery. Its plates are designed to deliver maximum power for a short duration. Starting a car typically discharges an SLI battery less than 5 percent. When an SLI battery is used in a deep-cycle application, or in a vehicle with heavy accessory loads, the battery life will be shortened proportionally to how deeply it is cycled on a regular basis


When should I use a deep-cycle OPTIMA® battery as a starting battery?

Deep-cycle batteries are designed for applications that require deep, repetitive amperage drain like trolling motors, golf carts, and electric wheelchairs or RV house power sources. However, there are other applications called heavy-cycling or high-cycling, when a deep-cycle OPTIMA® battery can successfully replace a starting battery to provide longer life and better performance. In heavy-cycling or high-cycling applications, a vehicle will pull unusually high amperage levels from the starting battery due to extra accessories or limited alternator capacity. Public safety professionals such as police, fire and ambulance fleet managers often find that traditional starting batteries cannot provide adequate life and performance due to heavy cycling. Using an OPTIMA® deep-cycle battery in this type of application will result in longer life and better performance.

In any vehicle or equipment that will use the battery only for starting, lighting and ignition (SLI) requirements and has a properly working alternator, the OPTIMA® REDTOP® Starting Battery will perform extremely well, often providing up to two times longer life than conventional batteries. If the vehicle has few or no aftermarket accessories and uses a stock or upgraded alternator, the OPTIMA REDTOP® Starting Battery is the appropriate choice.

Remember, it is possible to have a deeply discharged YELLOWTOP® that will not start the engine; the advantages of the YELLOWTOP® are that it can accept a rapid recharge and it will recover from discharge many more times.

It is necessary to consider both the application and the charging system before deciding which OPTIMA battery is correct for you. For example, if you have a Ford Expedition with an aftermarket alarm system and you drive the vehicle every day, the OPTIMA REDTOP® would be the correct choice since the amperage drain will be nominal and the battery would be recharged on a daily basis.

However, if you store the vehicle for long periods with the alarm system engaged without maintaining the battery, you should use an OPTIMA YELLOWTOP® since the amperage drain over several weeks would damage a REDTOP® and reduce its life.

 

The above only states basically what I have covered.

The Optima is a liquid acid battery (information from there own technical data) not paste as you state in your post. This same data says not to charge at more than 10 amps unless the temperature of the battery is monitored. The only car that I know does this is the gen 3 Prius.

The above also states as I did "that the charging system if using a stock or upgraded alternator a red top should be used. It is the charging rate that is the main limiting factor in where the yellow top can be used.

The paste is the plate material not the elctrolite and it is the plates that are the main difference to standard flat plate batteries. As you correctly say they are spiral wound but this in it's self is not peculiar to Optima, there are many more spiral wound batteries made by Cyclon, Exide and others.

The problem with spiral wound batteries is there waste of space, just look at the underside of an Optima to see what I mean. If a single cell is 3 inches in diameter it has a floor area of 7.069sq inches, a cell that is 3 inches square (taking up know more space in a pack of 6 cells making up a 12v battery) has a floor area of 9 sq inches. Giving approximately 23% more plate area for the same size battery.

The fact that they are AGM or deep cycle does not really matter as flat plate batteries are available with these attributes with for the same footprint higher amp/hr capacity, these batteries are used in invalid scooters and electric wheel chairs where they are deep cycled on a day by day basis.

This type of flat plate battery can also be either a starved lead acid or can be purchased in gel form. The problem with gel batteries is they must be charged slowly (to prevent gas bubles in the gel and they also do not perform well at extreams of temperature hot or cold). This is the type of battery I have in my Prius "not the gel version", rated at 60 amp/hr against the Optimas 35 amp/hr meaning when the Optima is discharged the battery I am using is still nearly half charged. It is the charging rate that is the main limiting factor in where the yellow top can be used

 

Absorbed glass mat
AGM batteries differ from flooded lead acid batteries in that the electrolyte is held in the glass mats, as opposed to freely flooding the plates. Very thin glass fibers are woven into a mat to increase surface area enough to hold sufficient electrolyte on the cells for their lifetime. The fibers that compose the fine glass mat do not absorb nor are affected by the acidic electrolyte. These mats are wrung out 2–5% after being soaked in acids, prior to manufacture completion and sealing.
The plates in an AGM battery may be any shape. Some are flat, others are bent or rolled. AGM batteries, both deep cycle and starting, are built in a rectangular case to BCI battery code specifications

Comparison with flooded lead–acid cells
VRLA batteries offer several advantages compared with flooded lead–acid cells. The battery can be mounted in any position, since the valves only operate on overpressure faults. Since the battery system is designed to be recombinant and eliminate the emission of gases on overcharge, room ventilation requirements are reduced and no acid fume is emitted during normal operation. The volume of free electrolyte that could be released on damage to the case or venting is very small. There is no need (nor possibility) to check the level of electrolyte or to top up water lost due to electrolysis, reducing inspection and maintenance.[4]
Because of calcium added to its plates to reduce water loss, a sealed battery recharges much more slowly than a flooded lead acid battery.[5][6] Compared to flooded batteries, VRLA batteries are more sensitive to high temperature, and are more vulnerable to thermal run-away during abusive charging.[1] The electrolyte cannot be tested by hydrometer to diagnose improper charging, which can reduce battery life. [7][6]
AGM automobile batteries are typically about twice the price of flooded-cell batteries in a given BCI size group; gel batteries as much as five times greater. Less reliable than flooded lead acid

DS46B24R YELLOWTOP® Prius® Auxiliary Battery 8171-767 :: OPTIMA® Batteries

 

Recommended Charging Information
Alternator: 13.65 to 15.0 volts
Battery Charger: 13.8 to 15.0 volts; 10 amps maximum; 6-12 hours approximate
Float Charge: 13.2 to 13.8 volts; 1 amp maximum; (indefinite time at lower voltages)
Rapid Recharge (Constant voltage charger): Maximum voltage 15.6 volts. No current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below 1 amp.
Cyclic or Series String Applications::
14.7 volts. No current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). When current falls below 1 amp, finish with 2 amp constant current for 1 hour.
OPTIMA® YELLOWTOP® DS46B24R offers a direct fit replacement for the 2004 and newer Toyota Prius.®

 

The OEM battery is an AGM battery but it does have a quantity of free acid above the plates. Many people have reported this on PC including myself.

It is also a VRLA battery but still has an external vent. It does not however appear to stand up to deep discharge very well, again reported here on PC. It can also be easily be topped up as can many VRLA batteries

The thing that you did not cover on your quotes from Optima and others is the waste of space of the spiral wound cell when several cells are put together to form a battery, this is probably the biggest downside of the spiral cell.

 

i guess boone gave up on us. he probably has his conversion done already. i only brought up the 12v because he mentioned that his mpg's were dropping and that caused him to wonder if he needed a new hybrid battery before beginning conversion.

 

i knew it!