Less wear and tear with hybrids?

Makes logical sense but I doubt anything can be proven. The "life" of engines varies with hundreds of thousands of miles difference to millions in a taxi. Even on the exact same engine from the same manufacturer, it varies.

A well designed, engineered, and manufactured engine like the Toyota engines have the most variance in their usable life by how the owners treat them. There are posts on here of people not putting in, changing or even checking the engine oil for a few tens of thousands of miles. With no oil, an engine dies fast. Do the maintenance in the book if you are not comfortable deciding your own schedule. In addition to that, ATF changes are recommended early and then every 30K to 60K miles after that even though Toyota says it is "lifetime".

As to overall less maintenance, definitely. Hundreds of thousands of miles on original brake pads is common since they are almost never used.

 

ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid. You have to use the Toyota Pink (Long Lasting) fluid. Many dealers won't even do it because it says it does not need to be done. Don't let a quick-lube place do it like they would a normal car since the Prius has no torque converter and does not need to be flushed. Just drained like oil, and refilled, that's it.

With light to moderate braking above a few miles per hour, the regenerative brakes recharge the battery. The last few miles per hour use the friction brakes but slowing a car from 3-7mph to 0 is very different than slowing a car from 50mph to 0 with pads. If you panic brake or brake aggressively, you will use both the friction brakes and regenerative brakes wearing out the pads faster.

If you brake like a crazy person, you will replace brakes at a pretty regular interval. If you drive like a less-insane person they may last the life of the car. They get so little use that in the heavier snow areas that salt the roads, sometimes the rotors rust with no use. I have over 100K miles and more than 80% of the original brake pads left. I accelerate hard, and brake normally.

 

Cartainly less maintenance. There are a lot of "missing" parts in a Prius C. No external belts and no internal timing chain. Nothing to do but change the oil every 10K miles. OK every few years some filters and spark plugs. The brakes might last 100K miles

The best people to ask are taxi drivers. Locally most every taxi I see is a Prius. I'd guess 90% are. I hear that many have 300K miles and no problems

No only does the engine not work so hard but it can't be "abused" by the driver. the engine throttle is 100% computer controlled and will never be over revved or "pushed" hard.

 

The elextric motor is run "backwards" to provide torque is the backwards direction when you apply the brakes. The amount iif reverse torque depends on how hard to apply the brakes.

Running th motor is this mode cause it to generate electric power, this power is put in the battery and re-used when the light turns green.

If you brake really hard the computer will see that you really want to stop quickly and will start to use the front and or rear friction brakes in addition. I think there is also some failsafe backup where the friction brakes are used if the computer fails. You can actually "feel" the switch over. It makes a slight "clunk". A passenger might not notice but the drive will, there is a slight clunk feel as the friction brakes come on at about 4 miles per hours per hour of about 15 feet from the place where you want to stop at. But before that time the brake pedal is making power for your. You quickly learn to extend that time as long as you can it is just like making your own free gas.

 

AHA! So that's what that little clunk is! I have often wondered, and been meaning to ask, but couldn't quite find the right words to describe it. Thanks, CAlbertson!

 

Easy mistake. The ATF WS transmission oil is dark red, not pink which is the SLLC coolant.

 

You apparently know little about internal combustion engines, CAlbertson.

The Prius C engine HAS an internal timing chain because it is what links the dual overhead cams to the crankshaft. We corrected you a couple of days ago but you seem to have ignored it or just plain don't care.

It matters. Stop posting incorrect information.

 

LOL, magic valves! Timing chains typically need replacement less often than timing belts, but they do not last forever, of course.

Given two theoretical 1.5L gas engines, one Otto with a manual transmission and one Atkinson cycle with a CVT, chances are the Atkinson cycle example will outlast the Otto simply due to the reduced operational load range, lack of enrichment, and reduced thermal stress at WOT from power reduction. The catalytic converter [kitty] will also last longer as it's not subjected to high EGT temps at WOT or AFR fluctuations.

All OEM's do durability testing with the powertrain far beyond what any human can subject the engine to in real world conditions, including a 24 hour endurance race at the Nurburgring. As with any modern non-manual transmission, the electronic nannies keep the driver from doing anything destructive. The Prius is so hands-off & idiot proof from a powertrain perspective, you have to try really hard to do any long-term damage to it.

Since the Prius' engine operates in such a narrow load range, it's easier on oil. Since it makes so little power, it's easier on the cooling system and again the oil. Since people usually drive them so slow [it's all relative], there's little stress on the transmission, CVJ's, brakes, cooling and oil systems. All that adds up to a significant probability that the Prius' systems will last much longer than "typical" powertrains.

 

Miles are miles. They're all going to give a hit to some part of the car.

The two big pieces: gas and electric. If you use less of one, you'll use more of the other. Over 6000 miles of trip B, I had used the electric part 25% of operational time. That meant I used the gas engine only 75% of the time. There are some that will use more electric and others that will use more gas. Total ratio of gas bits to electric bits depends on commute route and operator knowledge/desire/patience.

But this kind of thing doesn't slip past those wiley corporate Toyota engineers. They wound up designing the gas engine and electric bits so that they would each last approximately whatever mix of miles and time they think you should drive their cars before they think you ought to fess up and buy another one. Or, that under normal, standard, expected human abilities both the gas or electric parts would last about as long as the other.

In the end, the answer to your question is Yes/No/Maybe. Every vehicle has a standard life span. What that span is under normal use under normal circumstances varies from car to car. Some have harder use, some easier. Some are garaged, some are left out in the sun, rain, snow, sleet, dust, bird poo, salt spray. The drive train will last as long as it was designed to last, however you use it.

But being a hybrid does not relieve it from natural law. One part or the other will wear out first.

 

As Ryephile and Mr Incredible have mentioned, the Prius has advantages over a plain vanilla ICE (pun not intended) automobile. The Prius C internal combustion engine does not "spin" at very low or very high rpm.

The hybrid synergy drive (Toyota HSD) assists the ICE during high speed cruising (75 mph and above). The Prius C engine at peak power output of 73 hp/54 kW occurs at 4800 rpm and the maximum torque (82 lb-ft / 111 N-m) occurs at 4000 rpm. The top speed for the C is 105 mph according to Car and Driver magazine,

The traction battery, inverter, and the two electric motor/generators not only save fuel but also allow the engine to run at lower horsepower/kilowatts than the typical ICE since there are no parasitic loads on the Prius C engine (air conditioning, power steering pump, or alternator) that do require additional engine output (however small) from the non-hybrid engine.

Regenerative braking is a big advantage over any vehicle without it. My 05 liftback has 184750 miles as of today and the front brake pads have at least 40% life remaining. The best brake life I've experienced personally was with my 92 Civic VX which went 95,000 miles before the first brake pad replacement was needed.

So, as far as the brake system is concerned, the Prius wins hands down - no contest.

And now for the bad news, moving parts wear due to forces and friction. Although today's vehicles can reach an astonishing half a million miles, the average vehicle built in the last ten years experiences the ravages of age at about the 300K mile mark. Oil consumption increases because piston rings and piston ring grooves have worn, the valve stem guides and seals leak, the ball bearing and roller bearings in the transmission/differential may have experienced considerable wear, etc.

The Prius ICE has a slight advantage which is hard to quantify since there's so much variability between types of vehicles and manufacturers. Toyota is one of the best - I've seen way too many early 90's and even late 80's Camrys and Corollas on the road to know that Toyota's non-hybrids can easily be driven to over 300k miles when properly maintained. Toyota's non-hybrid cars will win the longevity test unless the Prius can last as long without requiring major repairs on the HSD side.

Alas, the real question mark is the hybrid system. It's pretty complex and most likely will be prone to many minor and a few major failures the more time and miles the 1 million plus fleet of Prius' accumulate. Some Gen II and III Prius' have made it above 300K on the original traction battery (but most haven't reached that milestone yet). Sorry Gen 1 owners you're too few and too long in the tooth to be part of this.

I, for one, will be very reluctant to replace the traction battery at the 300k mile mark - if Yoda makes it that is.

I'll never say never, however I know my Prius won't last forever.

 

If you have ever had a traditional automatic transmission apart, you will remember that they are a complex piece of machinery, with all their hydraulic channels, ports, valves , ring bands, gear sets, etc.

Compare that to the schematics I have seen of the Prius CVT, consisting of a single ring gear, a single planetary gear set, a single sun gear, and two motors (MG1 and MG 2). I think the Prius CVT is a much simpler transmission and hopefully with fewer parts you will have fewer problems...

Some will say though that if the computer goes wonky so will the CVT. I say this is true, yes, but also true with conventional transmissions.

 

The threshold between regen-only braking and regen+friction braking is lower than many Prius drivers seem to think. It corresponds to light braking at highway speed, and light-to-moderate braking at residential street speed. For many drivers, including my spouse, 'normal' braking definitely gets into the friction zone.

For my Liftback, fully loaded at 70 mph, full force braking is equivalent to over 500 kW. But the battery can accept only 27kW of regenerative braking, less than 6% of full braking power, so the rest has to be friction. That allowable fraction goes higher as speed gets lower. I haven't figured anything for the lighter 'c' model, but the concept is the same.

While I sometimes feel the switchover, it isn't a 'clunk'. I really do have a 'clunk', but it is something else.

 

I feel the switch, but I never hear anything.

 

The "missing parts" also include starter, alternator, clutch, torque converter, and reverse gear. However, while there is no timing belt, I'll bet my paycheck there IS a timing chain. There is no magic hand that causes the camshafts to open and close the valves in synch. with the crankshaft.

I'll add my two cents that the Power Split Device in the Hybrid Synergy Drive results in what must be a lower average number of revolutions per mile than most cars of this engine size and weight. (This can be observed by the low highway RPMs on a ScanGage.) Less revolutions = less wear = long life.

 

What is the typical rpm of the C at 60 mph?

 

Prius appears so far to match the reliability of stalwarts Corolla and Camry. So with decent car maintenance 250k miles is expected, 350k miles is not unusual, and past 350k not enough data has accumulated. I have seen reports of the ICE developing oil leaks from somewhere around 300k miles.

I track all repair and maintenance expenses on my '04 Prius, now at ~ 150k miles. Cost has been less than a penny a mile, meaning oil, filters and tyres. Pretty amazing.

 

My wife drives that way too. Race to the red light followed by a hard stop. For half the world that is "normal braking". When I brake I look at the "eco meter" and try not to let the regenerative braking max out. Of course some times you need to stop quickly but those are the exceptions.

Back on-topic. How long will a Prius last? We can speculate all day but the real answer is so darn long that we don't have good data yet. Toyota only has been selling them in the US for 12 years and after 12 years we don't see many Priuses with worn out engines. All we can say without guessing is that the car should last at least 12 years because most 2000 model year cars are still on the road. Next year we (maybe) can say that the car should last 13 years. We will have to wait until 2020 to know if they can last 20 years.

On the "miles on the odometer 'till dead" side we do know that the typical prius can last 300,000 miles with very little maintanice. But there are few cars with more than 300K miles. Most of the high mileage cars are taxis. In my local area most (80% at least) taxis are Prius. Some of these will hit 500K miles in a couple years

Actually that is the best thing you can say: We don't know the service life.