My thoughts on the 2012 hihy after 4 days

Congrats on the new wheels! We have the same pair of vehicles as well. I've had the HiHy over 40mpg for as much as 40 miles in the summer, but haven't managed it yet on a full tank. 39mpg was as close as I got due to having more short trips and A/C use for the kids than ideal. On the highway I have about the same experience. Up to 31mpg or so if you drive 65, a bit less at higher speeds. Overall, I can get 35mpg around town plus 7-8 months per year. It drops off when temps start to drop below 70 and by freezing, I can't get close to EPA around town. Longer highway trips stay closer to EPA, 1-2mpg below in the coldest months, a couple above when it's warm.

I also find it a bit easier to keep electric mode on in the HiHy and the battery seems to last longer as well. I can easily go the final stretch of road at 35-40mph to my house that is just over a mile on electric mode and only take a few ticks off the battery, while the Prius will go through a topped charge if it doesn't click ICE on. I also agree on the display issues, especially since the HiHy is quieter and smoother and makes it harder to feel the engine transitions sometimes. You will also be annoyed that your past tank records max at 30mpg unless they changed that since 2011...

Enjoy the new ride! I still am after 1.5 years.

 

I don't have scanguage for either hybrid. I'd be very interested in a photo or description of how to install in the HiHy if you try it. I also find it to be one of my biggest complaints that I can't see instant and average tank mpg at the same time, and I have to look to the center dash screen and take my eyes off the road to see either one.

I assume the scanguage could be placed on the dash closer to line of sight and display both at the same time? Maybe something to put on my birthday list...

 

Great stuff from both you guys! I love hearing about the HiHy since it would suit me really well in the next 3-5 years (especially if Toyota still doesn't have any hybrid trucks). Keep us updated on FE, trip reports, and any other tidbits you'd like to share with us, thanks!!!

 

Thanks for the update- the Scanguage will definitely go on my birthday/holiday list.

Took another highway trip, two tanks 30-31mpg. Around town now 31-32mpg as temps have dropped into the 50s lately. It's pretty flat around here, but my year-round mpgs would be better if it wasn't for Dec-Feb when they drop below EPA 28mpg.

Thinking of new tires as well. The stock Duelers are pretty mediocre in terms of traction and handling, but they do seem to be reasonable for quiet ride and fuel economy. Considering Continental LX20 or Michelin Latitude Tour.

 

I was able to take an extended look at the HiHy for the first time at the Texas State Fair last week. I was very impressed! Seats seemed to be very comfortable and pretty good quality. The back seats were extremely easy to fold down and put back up, took seconds. Also, while I was checking the back seats out via the lift gate another gentleman climbed back there. I asked him how it was and he said it wasn't horrible but that he probably wouldn't want to ride back there very long. Seems to be best for kids, like many others have said on here.

Needless to say I hope these things go a little more mainstream and prices might be able to come down a hair. I assume a refresh or next generation should be due before too long and hopefully the timing will be right for when I need something like this 3-5 years from now.

 

A hitch carrier would probably be a must for long road trips with more than 4 people. But technically a hitch carrier should have little impact on FE so that's not a big deal.

You know how we have our little round trip (no elevation change) competitions for the Prius where we can do 99.9+ and some of the best can do over 120 mpg....wonder what is possible in a HyHi. Anyone know Wayne to ask him if he's tried it?

 

The Highlander's max reading is 90.0 mpg;-) You'd need scanguage for anything higher...

Who is Wayne? I met a Wayne with a CleanerMPG cap at an automotive media luncheon last year and we discussed hybrids briefly as he sounded like an enthusiast. Can't recall his last name but guessing this might be who you mean? I seem to remember while chatting that when he asked me what I was driving, he indicated that he liked the Prius but didn't like the Highlander Hybrid. I don't think he offered an explanation before he cut off the conversation, though. Guessing perhaps he didn't have kids? Obviously everyone has different requirements and preferences. No offense if he is a reigning hypermiling expert here at PC; I obviously don't know a lot of first names vs. usernames here and I also don't keep track of a lot of the great FE discussions which is why I'm still a hypermiling noob!

As for the third row, I've probably mentioned it before also. You can increase legroom by taking some away from the second row, but the third row seats are low to the floor. So, an adult's knees will still be up in the air with no thigh support. Even my 13-year old son has this issue and that makes it less than ideal on long trips. Kids in boosters and pre-teens out of boosters are short enough to where they don't have the same issue. A small seat cushion can help older kids and adults a bit, provided it doesn't cause a headroom or issue with lack of adequate head restraint.

Attaching a pic of my hitch carrier.

Also, just got a great deal on a set of Michelin Latitude Tours to replace the Dueler H/L 400. Of all the review SUVs I've had in the last 1-2 years, I think almost all of them had top quality OEM tires. Not sure why Toyota scraped the barrel with mediocre Bridgestone or Toyo tires, rather than their higher end tires.

 

Sounds like you met the American hypermiling guru Wayne Gerdes. And yep, CleanMPG is his forum/website. I wonder why he didn't like the HiHy?

That looks like it was a fun trip. Was that a Great Wolf Lodge you were stopped at? Also, it looks like you have a car seat in the back row?

 

Yup, Niagara Falls this summer from Chicago. That was a Britax Frontier 85 converted to a high back booster for my 7-year old in the 3rd row. I get a number of carseats for reviews and such, so it varies almost weekly sometimes.

I know some FE purists prefer the cheapest option that maximizes possible fuel economy. The Highlander Hybrid meets neither of those criteria! Of course, if you've got 3 kids and want a safe ride that also keeps them out of poking range of each other, a Honda Fit or Prius or something doesn't quite do the trick. That's when ideal fuel economy contradicts the reality of keeping your sanity while taking a road trip or even running kids around town to all their stuff.

 

kbb.com has it as the lowest cost to own over the life of the vehicle for any hybrid SUV. And it's not that much extra cost of ownership compared to the base Highlander.

 

Right- depending on your driving habits and conditions, you can certainly justify it compared to other 3-row vehicles. I did. For the real hardcore hypermilers looking at straight up purchase cost and max fuel economy, it doesn't really look good compared to many other choices. I suppose if you don't have at least a couple kids or frequently haul lots of cargo or need to tow, you'd probably never consider a Highlander Hybrid as a "green" vehicle or a good value compared to a smaller hybrid, diesel or EV. So, I often drive the Prius for that

 

I just ran the numbers again on kbb and it looks like it has the HiHy only about 4 or 5 grand more over the 5 year cost of ownership than the very cheapest 4 cyl Sienna. That is pretty good!

Now here's hoping they will make a Hybrid Sienna at some point!

 

Interesting site, just registered- thanks! I notice that there are a ton of sub forums, including many for specific hybrid models, but not one for the Highlander. Guess that confirms my impression lol! Well, to be fair, the GM full size SUV hybrids don't have one either;-)

 

Another hit against HiHy is that it didn't use a 4 cylinder engine like in the later Camry hybrid. The drive train was developed for the Lexus and a more performance oriented consumer. Since neither the 2wd Lexus and old 2wd HiHy have a tow rating, a smaller engine likely wouldn't have lowered the current rating by much to be the only reason for the V6. So it has a bit of power hybrid smear on it.

As to price, a great TCO doesn't matter if the purchase price is out of reach for many people. Perhaps a low trim hybrid Highlander will be offered with the next redesign, as with the Camry. Right now it is possible to get an Explorer, a larger vehicle, for $8000 to $10,000 less.

PS: If you haven't figured it out yet, Wayne is xcel at cleanmpg. I only really use the site for news and reviews. I didn't find the sub forum arrangement very useful for info on improving fuel economy outside of the popular fuel miser models. So I ended up at gassavers.org for that.

Wayne's article on hypermiling is a must read if you do want to save gas.