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GEN II P3190 DTC Engine Stalling, No start. PLEASE HELP...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by UKCLASSICPRIUS, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    Well I did remember checking all fuses, & have since RE-checked them, they are all firing with 12v....

    I also Swapped out the circuit relay (that black hidden relay module)

    BUT unfortunately, ITs the same symptoms, & not made any difference.


    I want to check physical fuel pressure, & injector timing, let me get my hands on my equipment, IF its even good enough??? basic ODB, & torque app via android.

    Will report back...

    P.s. I am biting the bullet & buying an Autoenginuity, hopefully it will work out much better with my prius
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, a good idea to put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and see what the fuel pressure is. Should be 44-50 psi.
     
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  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Very very odd its only throwing the 3120. Are you sure its not throwing a subset code or codes also as your in critical failure with no start. If not fuel/ignition related I would start looking at camshaft & crank sensor but they would throw a code also so perplexing. Maybe engine ECU?
    How corroded is the bottom of the car as maybe you have connectoritis and have corroded crank sensor connector or something like that.

    Is this car an accident rebuild?

    And lastly what does your last sentence mean in your first post concerning the HV battery dying and needing recharge? I assume you mean the aux 12 volt battery not the HV battery. And what is the state of charge (SOC) of the Hybrid battery at this point?
     
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  4. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    YES very odd its only got 1x code & that too one thats reoccurring straight away, once cleared...

    I know the location of the crankshaft sensor, BUT wheres the camshaft sensor located?

    cars quite good condition under the bonnet, IT has been previously in an accident, the left hand side was scraped, quite heavily... BUT its been on the road since... Although it still needs a curtain airbag...

    I want to check those sensors, too, Just looking for my manual, That I cant seem to find...
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    May I suggest that for a serious problem like this, you get the real manual from techinfo.toyota.com or the equivalent Toyota Europe site,

    Toyota Service Information


    The camshaft position sensor is mounted in the head, on the side of the engine facing the inverter. However I really doubt that is your engine's problem.

    You need to decide if the no-start problem is due to lack of fuel or lack of ignition. If the former, then the camshaft and crankshaft sensors are irrelevant.

    Once you decide that lack of fuel is the problem, see whether the fuel rail has the correct pressure, 44+ PSI. If not, then there is something wrong with the fuel pump, the associated wiring, or the engine ECU.

    If there is correct fuel line pressure but no fuel being injected, then the fuel injectors, the engine ECU, or the associated wiring have a problem.
     
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  6. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    YES Patrick I agree, I did have the PDF type manual somewhere, Just have not needed it lately... (l agree toyota website would have the latest INFO, BUT I had a half decent 800 page PDF somewhere... I am sure comes close.

    ALSO YES the crankshaft sensor is near the engine coolant sensor...

    BUT where is the camshaft sensor?

    I have ordered Autoenginuity from the USA (BUT I am in the UK) So no idea when it will arrive...

    I have been looking into a basic fuel pressure gauge, a good few available on ebay, Will look to order one ASAP!
     
  7. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    Update Autoenginuity is on its way, With enhanced Toyota interface...

    I used an Expedited delivery SO wish me Luck....

    Fingers crossed, Its whats needed to sort this motor out...
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    My prior post said that the camshaft position sensor is mounted on the cylinder head near the inverter.

    The crankshaft position sensor is located near the crankshaft pulley.
     
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  9. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    Thanks for the Correction, Will see what the insides of these connectors look like & report...
     
  10. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    Prii will run if you disconnect the camshaft position sensor. You will likely get a P0340 code.
    A bad crankshaft position sensor could cause a no start, usually with other codes then P0190.
    This is a crankshaft position sensor:
    IMAG1157.jpg

    This is one that failed, you can see the oil leaking through the pin on the right side.
    IMAG0959.jpg

    Avi
     
  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Very hard t0o measure fuel pressure as pump is not on long during start up. To prevent the very thing your saying about having fuel in the exhaust etc... So it does not flood the cylinders. Hard to measure on fuel rail on a non running car as it will show low pressure and send you erroneously in that direction. You must jump out fuel pump relay and force it on. Been there done that.

    And as far as sensors being irrelevant they fail all the time but i conditioned my post about them by saying if ITS NOT fuel related it may be sensors because the prius like most modern cars show these sensors in dead engine trouble tree's quite prominently.

    By the way OP in USA auto parts stores will loan you fuel pressure gauge for free. Hope same for you. Hook to fuel rail and jump out pump relay. Make measurement brief.
    Good Luck!
     
  12. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    there are a few pressure gauges available on ebay.co.uk, that come with attachments, but no hose? getting the right attachments & hose seems to be the issue...

    Let me see what I can do Whilst I wait for this Autoenginuity to arrive... Surely AE has the abillity to see all this live data Right?
     
  13. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    I would never have thought it, BUT its here, Autoenginuity arrived! Quicker then I could figure out what pressure gauge to buy...

    YET to install, Cant wait, this is one day I have been waiting for for ages... heard alot about this product.
     
  14. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    I am ever so sorry I would not post Double threads with same topics, what happened was the forum went down instantaneously just as I was trying to make this post, & when I did manage to try & find my post (when back online) it was not there visible to me?

    Please accept my apologies, I have just bumped into this thread now.

    How shamefull...

    How to resurrect this? Can this topic be moved to my other post? Or even deleted?
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    I've merged the two threads, it's all good.
     
  16. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    Hi Patrick, Just a quick one, I have had my fuel tank service hole cover open, & it looks like the (UK or shall I say European model) has a fuel pump with an opening cap on the top (Meaning its not a sealed unit & can be replaced), & has only 5 wires (pinouts) & no by wire... (unlike the US models with 7 wires & a by wire)

    Its had me fondling through different service manuals I had, BUT to No joy!

    SO I went ahead & removed fuel injector, (Without ANY pressure) & tryed starting to see if there was any fuel coming up, NO!

    Completely Dry..

    SO I tried running the fuel pump motor with an external battery (with the car OFF), & it DOES make a running sound...

    BUT still No fuel passing the fuel rail???

    I am sure I have hit it on the head, BUT the pump motor still runs? ~Which has me baffled, there is just no fuel up ahead in the fuel rail...
     
  17. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    If you used an external battery did you connect the correct way round if not the fuel pump will pump backwards.
     
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  18. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    Yes Batman, red to +, & black to -... I can just hear it whirring, BUT no sign of any fuel whatsoever at the fuel rail...
     
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, the next step might be to remove the fuel line at the fuel pump, attach a temporary hose to the fuel pump running to a large glass jar or other suitable container, and see what happens when you momentarily energize the fuel pump. If you don't see any fuel being pumped then you know either there is no fuel in the tank or the pump is not pumping even if the fuel pump motor is running. If you do see fuel being pumped then there is something wrong with your fuel line running to the engine compartment - maybe a kink in the metal line caused by the line impacting something hard?

    You must be very careful with this process because if you create an electric spark which ignites fuel vapor, you and your Prius may become a barbeque.

    An alternate, potentially safer approach, would be to remove the fuel pump from the fuel tank, and have the fuel pump attempt to circulate a less volatile fluid, such as kerosene. At the end of your test, if you decide the pump can be returned to service, make sure all of the kerosene is out of the pump before you reinstall it.
     
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  20. UKCLASSICPRIUS

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    YES Patrick being really careful here, I disconnected one of the pipes on top of the fuel pump , (the others clamp was too hard to take off), there was no Vacum or shower of fuel at the tank end OR fuel rail..