Ford C Max, Prius killer?

The 1000 miles is, presumably, from the C-max manual.

Perhaps it is just for a break in period, and nothing to do with forecasting. Maybe the forecasting won't kick in until that is done, either, or even behave in a way to hasten it. Ford might also being cautious, considering the excitement of a new car might lead people to stray from their daily driving routine.

So they say 1000 miles to allow for the break in of the components, the driver to get familiar with the car, and extra trips to show it off to be factor in what the car can achieve day in and day out.

Which is basically what newbies to Prius ownership were told here since the day I joined Priuschat.

 

Husker4theSpurs should be approaching 3,000 miles though. 2006_HK reported his neighbor with 1,300 miles getting 39.8 MPG but mentioned it is raising.

 

I have to admit I'm quite intrigued by the C-Max Energi. I've owned an '02 HCH and '05 Prius but now it's time to step up to a plugin. I work from home so the majority of my drives are < 20 miles with the occasional long haul to a client. I would consider a Leaf as I'm putting in solar panels so electricity usage isn't a big deal but I'm concerned about the cost of replacing the larger battery pack out of warranty. The PiP looked like a good fit but the limited EV range along with other factors made me look at the C-Max. From what I can see the differences really boil down to:

PiP
Pros:
Available and thoroughly reviewed
Toyota quality
Good sized trunk

Cons:
Lousy plug-in placement
Limited EV range
Dull driving experience

C-Max Energi
Pros:
Greater EV range (20 miles versus 11)
More powerful and "fun" to drive
More passenger room (I have 2 kids)
More attractive/refined cabin (active noise canceling, displays, etc...)
Foot activated liftgate option
Rear vents (these matter for kids)
Made in America (I don't see that often)

Cons:
First year model
General Ford reliability (although better than it used to be)
Slightly lower rated fuel efficiency (but if it's really as bad as reviewers say that's a big negative)
MyFord Touch is a kludge
Trunk might be cramped

It feels weird to be considering a Ford since I always laughed at the shoddy quality and design of domestics but if the Energi lives up to the hype it might be a great car for my needs. Only time will tell.

 

i think hybrid fusion reliability has been very good if i'm not mistaken. i wasn't thrilled with the non hybrid version, but it wasn't 'bad' in any way, jsut a notch or two below camry imo. don't forget hv mpg's in the pip 'pros', you'll never get those from cmax.

 

The Prius PHV hybrid economy is better and a pro. The EV range of these cars just makes more user dependent of how important it is. Gasser hybrids will burn the gas no matter what. On the other hand, if a PHV's EV range means the user will be in gas mode less often, then the gas economy being lower becomes less important.

 

I'm glad to hear that the Fusion reliability is good. I wasn't looking at the regular C-Max, just the PHV (Energi) although it seems have a noticeably smaller trunk while the PiP essentially gives up nothing. Most of my driving is under 20 miles so while I might be able to do 2/3rds of my driving EV only with a PiP, I could do all of it in EV with a C-Max Energi (assuming all the numbers for EV range are accurate). Since the C-Max PHV hasn't been released yet though and the non-PHV fuel economy appears to be far below the EPA ratings I'm taking a wait and see. I've been very happy with my Prius, if the PiP had a larger EV range I wouldn't even look at anything else.

 

Not sure this will be substantially different. IMHO the Prius is a great size family car, C-max should be also.

	Column 1
0	[TH] Model [TH] Front Legroom [TH] Rear Legroom [TH] Front Hip [TH] Rear Hip [TH] Front Shoulder [TH] Rear Shoulder [TH] Front Head [TH] Rear Head
1	[TR] [TD] 2012 Prius [TD] 42.5 [TD] 36 [TD] 52.7 [TD] 51.2 [TD] 54.9 [TD] 53.1 [TD] 38.6 [TD] 37.6
2	[TR] [TD] 2013 C-Max [TD] 40.4 [TD] 36.5 [TD] 54.3 [TD] 51.9 [TD] 55.9 [TD] 55.2 [TD] 41 [TD] 39.4

The Prius has a bit more front leg room, the C-Max has a bit more hip/shoulder room. Other than that the greater passenger volume of the C=Max seems to be mostly in having a bit more headroom.

It will be interesting to see how this actually compares, the C-Max is more powerful but also considerably heavier.

	Column 1
0	[TH] Model [TH] Engine Power (hp)/Torque (ftlb) [TH] Electric Power/Torque (kW / ftlb) [TH] Battery Power (kW) [TH] System Total Power (hp) [TH] Curb Weight [TH] HP/Weight [TH] Top Speed
1	[TR] [TD] 2012 Prius [TD] 98 / 105 [TD] 60 / 153 [TD] 27 [TD] 134 [TD] 3042 [TD] 0.044 [TD] 112
2	[TR] [TD] 2012 Prius Plugin [TD] 98 / 105 [TD] 60 / 153 [TD] 38 [TD] 134 [TD] 3165 [TD] 0.042 [TD] 112
3	[TR] [TD] 2013 C-Max [TD] 141 / 129 [TD] 88 / 117 [TD] 35 [TD] 188 [TD] 3607 [TD] 0.052 [TD] 115
4	[TR] [TD] 2013 C-Max Energi [TD] 141 / 129 [TD] 88 / 117 [TD] 35 [TD] 188 [TD] 3859 [TD] 0.048 [TD] 102

Looking forward to seeing how the C-max does, it should at least be a worthy competitor.

Rob

 

Oh, I now own a Prius v, and I've test drove all the rest of the Prius line, as well as the C Max, and there's no question the C Max is faster, with a more effortless acceleration. It also is the quietest/most sound insulated of the bunch. It definitely brings some positive attributes to the table.

 

Rob, I think Energi's battery is 68 kW when full and 35 kW in hybrid mode.

 

Drive the Cmax guys it blows away the Prius in all respects!! I have a 2005 touring Prius which has been great, but the Cmax is a cut above and the EPA mileage is 47/47/47

 

So what you're saying is a new 2013 model is better than a 7 year old car? I get your point but are you comparing the CMax to your car or a new Plug-in Prius?

 

I think he's comparing 2012 Ford C-MAX with a 2012 Prius, same to same comparison. Prius wins on mileage, C-MAX win on everything else...auto off lights, power seats, ride, noise, DRL's, auto day/night mirror, styling, US made.

Real test will be Ford Energi vs. Prius Plug in...20 miles EV vs. 10.

 

Looks to me as though he is comparing the C-Max to his car, which is a Gen II.

I had a 2007 Touring model, and my 2010 Model V was a significant improvement all around (except for the flying bridge thing).

I've heard many great things about the C-Max in terms of interior fit and finish, but I've not heard anyone say that the car lives up to the EPA numbers. Not even close.

 

Except for EPA. EPA numbers are accurate and only dependable means to compare mileage vs. guys driving around. I've always gotten EPA plus 5-10% with careful driving.

 

I've heard you say this before, and you're welcome to believe it, but I'll continue to listen to people who've driven the cars and reported actual usage. It may not be apples to apples, but it is real life, so records on sites such as Fuelly have real value to me. Perhaps not when there are only a few drivers, but that will change over time. Given what I've read to date, I have a hard time believing the C-Max will live up to the EPA numbers.

 

Anecdotal info is unreliable. Scientific data using comparable testing metrics with track record of real world accuracy is always better.

 

Rely on the EPA data, if you'd like to, but I believe the real world is what matters. If someone who has done better than EPA numbers in one vehicle but can't get them in another, it tells me something. If that happens to several people, it should inform all who hear about it.

I've been degreed in Chemistry and worked in labs after college. I have a pretty good understanding of scientific method and the value of repeatable experiments. I also know that the real world doesn't always offer repeatable environments or identical equipment. I have been working outside the labs for many, many years now, and I've seen many circumstances where the best known and respected scientifically-proven predictions and models just don't pan out in certain cases. It isn't because the science was bad, but because not all variables come to bear in the same way under different circumstances.

The EPA numbers are a great way to level the field and keep companies from making outrageous claims (for their products or against others'). I rely on them in the absence of other information, but when I hear about specific instances where the EPA numbers do not appear to be borne out in the real world, I pay attention to it. In just the same way, I rely on information from trusted friends and family when making choices about a variety of things. I'm certain there are time when you, too, have relied on someone's opinion or advice. For me, this is one of those situations.

 

It is the rational approach vs. using anecdotes which are not based on any known evidence and unreliable by definition.

EPA beat you to the punch...it tells you that "your mileage will vary". We do know, not by much. We see it on PriusChat with the hypermilers bragging of high mpg vs. regular drivers complaining of less than EPA rated. The range remains the same...real world one might say.

Plus EPA keeps upgrading the science behind the testing. Data people can depend upon.

 

Seriously? I deal with EPA on a daily basis, and "rational" is not exactly the first word that comes to mind.

Anecdotal is not equivalent to unreliable. Evidence always is useful, but I need to employ my own experience and judgment, along with others I trust, to determine whether that evidence is reliable. But . . . nothing I say will be known evidence to you, so I may as well stop talking about that with you.

I'm baffled by this response. How can you rely on what anyone says on PriusChat or elsewhere if it is just anecdotal evidence? If the EPA test results are so magnificent, then why even believe YMMV except to assume YMMV is covered by the two sides of the bell curve where the EPA number, obviously, must be the center.

Real world is not an "EPA Estimated Mileage" number but real world numbers. I'll take the range reported on Fuelly by as few as a couple of hundred drivers over EPA numbers. If the real world numbers do line up on a bell curve surrounding the EPA Estimated Mileage, then I'll cheer for EPA. It probably happens for a number of cars, but not for all of them.

I'm glad for the upgrades, and I'll continue to value the EPA estimates. I'll also listen to what real owners and users say about their experiences.

 

Apparently, the C Max Hybrid is not living up to the EPA rating of 47/47. A search of C Max Hybrid forums reveals that even experienced Prius owners who bought a C Max can't seem to get it above 40 mpg. Fuelly even has a couple of 2013 C Max Hybrids registered. They seem to have trouble getting above 40 mpg.

Ford seems to indicated in the Owner's Handbook to not track mpg's until the car gets 1000 mi. I have a hard time believing that once broken in (after 1000 miles) it will get a miracolous boost in mpg. I really think that the extra hp that makes the car more "normal" is killing the mpg.

This is all too bad since I was hoping that Ford woould do well with the C Max Hybrid. The sad thing is that there are plenty of newer non-hybrid cars now that get almost (or beat) 40 mpg.

For comparison, the Prius V has 40% more cargo space and owners routinely beat the EPA mpg estimates. In fact, many (myself included) beat it by almost 10 mpg each fillup.

I will curiously keep an eye on it.