plug in kits (fading away?)

PHEV kits have always been a niche market. If there is a decline it may have something to do with the GFC and a lack of Government rebate incentives - White House Petition for equal tax incentives for plug-in conversions | PriusChat

Enginer took their listings off Ebay - a bit of a mistery as to why.

PIS is too pricey but has improved their website and is still expanding their kit to include more car makes and models. They seem to be getting a bit more of a niche market away from Enginer - just my opinion.

Enginer has always stood behind their product. The kits are still listed on Amazon Amazon.com: 4KWH Solar Powered Backup Generator and Hybrid Plug-in Add-on Kit: Patio, Lawn & Garden. And the Enginer kits are still listed on their own website www.enginer.us

 

I don't know Enginer's reason for taking them off ebay, but just because the kit is not on ebay doesn't make it un-reputable.

When something is listed on ebay, often it needs to be additionally marked up for all the fees involved. As a seller, if the goal is to provide it at the cheapest price, then ebay is not the way to do it.

Are you willing to have them put a listing up for you, and add an additional 5-10% onto the kit to cover the additional expense? If so, then ask them to do that for you. Who knows maybe they will?

And as far as dying or fading out, why do you think that?
Many of the the same players as there were a few years ago are still the ones around today. Plus a few more as far as I can see. All have been around for years.

Boulder Hybrid Conversions 10kWh (Paul of 3-Prong Power and crew)
Enginer (Jack and his crew)
Plug In Supply (Robb and his crew)
Plug In Conversion Company (PICC) (Same people as have run it since day one)

How many more options do you need?

 

Well, Hymotion disapeared, and I think suffered from inadequate engineering. Which is strange because this is the only company that had revenue coming from other areas (A123 power tools, hobby market, and major Auto companies). You would have thought they would have done better. Instead they got a lot of returns on Hymotion Batery packs, and then had to eat Fisker battery packs because of a defect. They never got enough volume to start reducing prices, and never took advantage of their new 20AHr pouch cells to make a better plug-in pack. All the effort went into R&D of the cells and not enough into engineering/manufacturing.

 

I think you are mistaken about why A123, Hymotion systems are not being sold.
What evidence can you point to that shows, "... they got a lot of returns on Hymotion Batery packs"?

 

I guess my experience of loseing my first pack to a bad CPU board in two years, my second pack is loseing capacity way too fast (I also noticed the second pack derated itself much faster at lower temperatures, indicating inadequate original testing) , and others on this Chat group, just about everybody has had problems and have lost thier packs to bad chargers/CPU's before 3 years. Not to mention the silly initial problems of the pack discharging the 12V Batt. by leaving the tail lites on, and the crude software interface. I realize this doesn't cover the entire inventory of packs that have been sold. But you add the Fisker fiasco, and A123 having to get bailed out by a Chinese Co. all tends to point to Eng.\Manufacturing problems. The cells themselves were state of the art and much more durable and long lived than the prev. Gen. Lithium batts, indicating good R&D.
By the way, I work in an Aerospace Manufacturing floor and I have worked with the A123 cells professionally in a R&D enviornment, so I have some expertise in these area's. I also asked in this forum previously if anybody had reached four years with a Hymotion pack and I got only one reply from a person that inherited a pack, but didn't know how many charges the pack had had.

 

Somebody reported on the Enginer forum that Jack Chenny is going out of business. I hope that it is a false rumour.

 

PIS has a decent website and has had it's first diy install on a 2012 plug in prius to double ev miles with a 4 kwh pack. pricey, yes, but plug and play is a good thing. i think cost is the biggest determent and poor gov support as lopez said above. hopefully, prices will fall as r&d progresses.

 

It appears that Enginer Inc is going out of business.
For owners needing repair or spare parts they are told to contact Ecotronics .

Enginer also identified a different company that will be offering new kits:
Powinenergy.com
They also seem to be a contact for buying RealForce batteries that are in the Enginer system.
Soft Pack Cells | Powin Renewable Energy Resources

 

And some of the people who might be semi-interested in a plug-in kit can get their PHEV fix w/a long warranty and full support from the automaker via cars like the PiP and Volt and w/o some of the goofy limitations inherent in the Prius (since non-PiPs weren't intended to be used as PHEVs or EVs). And, there are numerous pure EV choices now.

Why bother w/a kit now? The population of Gen 2 Priuses is shrinking and I suspect most who wanted kit already got theirs.

 

The people interested in aftermarket plug in systems may not be the same people who want factory systems. A reliable aftermarket, or home-built PHEV system may fit exactly the specific customer's needs so they don't need to spend more than is necessary. Certainly aftermarket systems are less expensive than buying a new car. Less wasteful as well.

In addition, people with factory Plug In Prii can use PHEV kits as range extenders. In fact I see there is a recent thread about someone who is doing just that Installed kit from Plug in Supply getting 28 miles! | PriusChat

 

Besides Hymotion being discontinued, now there's Electric Car Battery Maker A123 Systems Files Bankruptcy - Yahoo! Finance.

 

Really....... wow

The PHEV is a mix bag at best. Just as the EV market is too. The range/energy density issue play a big factor for both.
Nissan Leaf owners (in AZ, Cali, and worldwide) have never made the 100 mile range that was stated in marketing and owners manuals........ and some are close to filing a class action lawsuit against NISSAN concerning the LEAF.

My issue with PHEV mfg and third party reps are as follows......product quality, design, customer svc, warranty, and etc.
LifePo4 battery cells are expensive and therefore no way for a PHEV kit to be low cost.

Enginer has done itself a dis service in the following areas (design, quality, and mix /match componets..)

Would be nice if componets and true DIY sourcing for PHEV where available......however mostly what is found is 2nd and 3rd party distrib/reps we have to buy from...

 

Source re: the class action lawsuit? I think you're referring to the hot climate (mainly in AZ and TX) Leaf battery accelerated degradation/capacity loss issue, which is another long story. Nissan's handling and response to the situation has been disappointing, at best. (This is coming from me, a fan of the Leaf. I still plan to lease one.)

If you want a summary, see the 1st post of My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2.

As for range, well, the EPA rated range is 73 miles and Nissan's always given possible ranges depending on conditions (currently at Nissan LEAF® Range, Electric Vehicle Range Calculator - Nissan USA). Your claims of "have never made the 100 mile range" are totally untrue. Plenty of folks have, see My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - 100 Mile Club & 200 km Club, plus Longest Drive (unrefueled).

 

Okay these are not my claims but what I have actually read and found. I grant you that a small few have gotten the 100 mile range or so claim they have......without true firsthand witness/documented trips very few at best. Next NISSAN is doing LEASE only on alot of LEAFS. Additionally they do not sell the battery pack and is only replaced under dealer warranty...........

 

Those must be FACTS

 

100 miles is doable on a Leaf, it's just not at highway speeds. Tony Williams put together this range chart: My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Range Chart.

As for Nissan doing lease only a lot of Leafs, source? I sure wish they made it lease only in AZ and TX and stopped selling it there.

As for the battery pack, there's no official cost for the entire pack. As for warranty, it's been pretty rare that Nissan has replaced the entire pack, esp. since there's no capacity warranty.

 

You should check EVTV especially the Friday archives in October 2012 and Sept 2012....
The Nissan Leaf owner forum also reflects the instrument,range, fast charge, discharge, battery, mfg, and dealer issues that have made some owner's not so happy.....check them out.

 

I don't watch EVTV. I don't think I can listen to their ramblings, but it seems a few folks on MNL do. I've only watched clips for a few minutes when some Leafers have pointed us there.

I think I'm well aware of what you're talking about such as My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Phoenix Range Test Results, September 15, 2012 and the now 458 page My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11) thread. I'm fairly active on MNL but haven't been monitoring the capacity loss situation as closely as I was before.

Nissan has been doing a poor job in handling the AZ/TX/hot climate battery degradation situation. They and dealers have been calling the loss "normal", blaming it on # of miles driven (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - LEAF advisory group at 53K miles hasn't lost a capacity bar AFAIK, but he lives in a very mild climate vs. Scott at Real World Battery Capacity Loss - MyNissanLeaf who lost *4* capacity bars after 28K miles), picked some 7500 mile/year figure out of the air (w/o informing potential buyers), haven't explained why the battery chart that's referenced at Battery - MyNissanLeaf has been removed from newer service manuals, etc. Tony's page 2 thread I think explains things pretty well.

Some Phoenician Leafs have been bought back by Nissan (so that's a positive sign) but it seems they continue to sell them in AZ and TX. There's still no universal policy on what Nissan well do for hot climate area owners.

Another positive sign is that Nissan (very surprisingly) agreed to reimburse expenses for Tony's range test (My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Phoenix Range Test Results, September 15, 2012).

Others have been writing up stuff about the range test results, trying to come up with a degradation model/prediction based on city temps, summarizing Nissan's actions (Battery Capacity Loss - MyNissanLeaf), etc.

 

on ev powers site link aka ericbecky he states that enginer is being sold off to other private parties.....