Plug-In Prius misrepresentation

There are a few and they are generally quickly corrected here..
e.g.
Declining EV every day after full charge?? | Page 9 | PriusChat

And it was corrected by
Charles H in the post Declining EV every day after full charge?? | Page 10 | PriusChat

and by me in
Declining EV every day after full charge?? | Page 10 | PriusChat

Another threa
Anyone waiting for PIP getting the "itch" to consider a Chevy Volt instead? | Page 11 | PriusChat
Corrected by usbseawolf2000

And there are threads complaining about the rating as well such as
EPA numbers for the PIP = Pure Bull | PriusChat

There are plenty of others. If they post it here its fixed quickly.. my question was what other sites are doing the misinformation.

 

Thanks never saw the posts.

 

Here is what Modern Marvel Fan said:

 

Just posted a reply.. yours was not visible until after I posted mine as well.

 

Let me repeat for the nth time: the subsidy is about ensuring that cheaper battery technology gets to market and sooner rather than later. If it were about directly reducing gasoline consumption they'd be better off giving $2,500 off hybrids.

Besides, the problem with your idea that "most trips are short" is that in fact most trips are whatever peoples commutes are. What we need are PEVs that can cover a large proportion of those commuter miles and that requires a range of battery sizes. That's what we're getting.

 

...I am receptive to your idea about reason for subsidy, but is it documented somewhere?
Certainly seems some states have ulterior motives

 

I wouldn't call it ulterior motives. I would say different people (some of whom are state administrators, etc) have different Priorities.
John's biggest motive, as I understand it, is to have the greatest number of the lowest greenhouse gas emitting (tailpipe or smoke stack) vehicles possible, so he stresses that exclusively. I forget the former defense secretary who drove a Prius with the bumper sticker "Bin Laden hates this car". But for him, his primary, maybe only motive for the Prius was to lessen the money we send to people who want to kill us.
Both are good reasons to own and drive a Prius. I would describe neither as an 'ulterior motive' which tend to carry a negative connotation.

And good thread, misrepresentations hurt us all, but especially the consumers that may be mislead. If we can identify such threads and offer accurate information that is a wonderful thing to do.

 

...believe you're in reference to Woolsey, he has strong feelings. When we moved to Nor VA we were looking at houses and we went into one that was a owned by a former official, I forget who but I keep wondering if it was Woolsey...probably wasn't him, but there pics with Presidents etc. I have a hang up with motives anyhow, I feel we Americans need a fake motive (like WMD in Iraq, or ethanol burns cleaner <not>) to get behind an idea. If someone ever said the real motive in Congress, like for ethanol, supporting corn economy, then the ideas would not be approved by Congress.

 

Here is another one, kdawg trying to mislead.

Lyle Dennis is trading in his Volt for a Ford C-Max Energi

 

Kind of splitting hairs there, but the EPA rated AER doesn't really give the whole story. I tried to express that there.

 

BINGO! That was the guy, thanks
I may be nit picking here, but I don't believe any of those are example of 'fake motives' held by Americans. Take the WMD. That was a very real motive for the American public. However, there was no basis of fact behind the motive. Yes, someone created a 'fake motive', but Americans, as a whole, had a very real motive.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.. Now I understand why this thread exists.. someone was arguing poorly over at gm-volt.com and was beaten up a bit and wanted a supportive place to vent.

If you want to stomp out mis-information, I'll be there to join in the fray, even if its misinformation spread by users here. (Note, if I'm the one making an error, please do correct me.)

So let's stomp out some mis-information that seems to what lead to this thread.


kdawg's first posts in the above cited thread was

Is not misinformation as kdawg clearly said AER. (not EV range or some other vague term). It might be construed as somewhat misleading to those that don't know what AER means. He was corrected/reprimanded by others quickly to which kDawg posted

and explained his comment. So there is no misinformation there. Having read the whole thread, part of his comment si that the C-MAX's superior EV speed/power, which means the whole drive is pure EV, is part of what he liked about it.

Despite the OPs stated position, the response was NOT a correction, it was

That post does not really address the AER issue, just presented a one-day personal EV range (no standard or even route description) and other irrelevant things. It then question kdawg for "requiring" 40miles (which the post did not require.. and Kdawg latter posted was not what he said/intended.. he said it was a sweet spot). The Op then makes snide remarks about falling short winter.

Kdawgs post was not really an attack on the Prius PHV, it seem to be stating a reason for a preference. The OPs responses were not really addressing misinformation, but were misrepresenting what Kdawd said and sneaking in side information questioning/attacking the volt's design.

The OPs statement when starting this thread

Is ironic since the OP was using vague references, never actually replied with what posts were being attacked (and I asked). If this kwawg thing is the reason for the thread, then OPs responses were not really correcting misinformation, no where in that thread did I find vague references to suggest J..1a was saying PHV was superior,

Thus the first post in the thread is what is using vague references to spread misinformation, and I figured I'd share that as a common problem by that particular poster.. he often does not respond to the content of posts, misrepresents what others said and uses vague references without citation/support.

 

I think it is pretty clear that "the all electric" range is how far it went in the test without using fuel. After the engine starts is would be hard to measure true electric range as the ICE is charging the battery.

That is why EPA added MPGe which shows the mix of fuel & electric.

 

In order for Volt to EV at its advertised distance, the car must have a bigger, heavier battery. In order for that big, heavy battery to be hauled around when it's empty, the Volt needs a larger, less efficient ICE. If your round trip commute falls within the range that Volt can deliver in EV mode, and you rarely exceed that range, then Volt might be a good option. For shorter or longer commutes, the Prius PHEV delivers a better mileage rate because it works with a lighter, smaller ICE.

In the eventual case that battery technology delivers a smaller, lighter battery, both cars will benefit. There's probably a "magic number" of EV miles that will entice the crowd to move from their gassers to a hybrid model. And to be clear, a hybrid vehicle is still an evolutionary stage of automobile transportation.

 

Your reasoning is incorrect/misinformation. the Prius PHEV has the larger engine, 1.8L to the Volt 1.4L.
And on battery (i.e. for short trips), the 2013 Volt has slightly better MPGe so its more efficient. With the larger battery the volt uses less gas (i.e. gets better milage) for any commute that is under 115 miles (using EPA numbers). Average MPG on voltstats is 129MPG (median is 179), average PiP on Fuelly is 81.7... (though of course there is some self-selection on who bought what car). Since most people (93%) have commutes < 100 miles its not surprising real-world data shows the volt uses less on average or on the median. Efficiency is just one dimensions there is also 4 vs5 seats, Toyota vs GM, the looks of one or the other, etc.. There other factors should be factored in any decision and both are good cars that will appeal to different people.

The reason the volt used the 1.4L is that was an off-the shelf engine (used in the cruze) which could be intgrated quickly and still fit in the platform. It was not specially designed as was the Gen III prius engine. A larger engine allows more time in the low RPM more efficient region. Maybe Volt Gen II will get a larger and specifically tuned engine.

 

What I don't like is the sense of competition between Volt, Leaf and Prius. When I go to meet-ups, I don't feel this competition; we're on the same team and enthusiastic about our cars and we all want MORE plug-in cars.

Of the plug-ins available, Leaf, Volt and Prius are by far the best. The BMW and Mitsubishi offerings, and the electric RAV, don't impress me much. Neither does the $55,000 Tesla.

Leaf, Volt and Prius are onto something. I personally think the Plug-in Prius is best -- it has the lowest cost, a proven reliable chassis, seats five, gets exceptional economy no matter the distance.

 

But what is the horsepower rating of the two engines? The Prius has an Atkinson engine that by design gets less horsepower for a given displacement. From 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Performance and Specs ,

From

2013 Chevy Volt Specs | ‘13 Chevrolet Volt Engine Horsepower, Fuel Economy, & Interior Specifications at Automobile Magazine