Toyota Drops Electric Car (eQ) Sales Plans

I haven't heard a peep out of big oil against the batery tax credits. You may want to target that to those that are actually against them. Some like O'Reily was for them before he was against them.

One "gulp" proposal is to give the money to the manufacturer, that way it would not show up in the sticker price. This is what MITI did on the prius and insight.

Its pretty simple. No hoops to jump through. You can lease a car and the lease company gets it, or you fill out your tax form. You can adjust your with holding so there really is not a time delay.

I don't think we really need to increase the incentive. It is political though, and those that either want to drill baby drill (politicians and misinformed public not the oil companies) and those that hate the government supporting green things want to keep it hard. You can look at who participated in the congressional investigation of the volt to see who the ring leaders are.

 

There are few points that plug-ins and EV are not gaining sales.

1.) The PIP prius is not available everywhere just few selected US states.
2.) Many folks are waiting to see how the battery will perform over the winter and/or years. Similar like first model of Prius many years ago, it took many years before the sales start going up.
3.) Increasing EV numbers means heavier reliability on raw material supply from China; and current political situation between China and Japan is not going well, so there might be push for FC vehicles and it is a smart move.

 

I would think Toyota will keep making PiPs (in response to speculation a few dozen posts back). Toyota if anyone understands that change does not occur overnight, re: 1st gen Prius. IMHO Toyota is going to have to wait and see if USA sales picks up with time, since I feel the Japan PiP market is probably an important source of the overall weakness. One thing that would help USA sales is more State incentives, such as at least $1000 credit and off-peak charging rates. Some states offer nothing unless you get an BEV. In USA, the states tend to think of elec utilities as the "private" industry that the state gets to manage, so in general there is political support for using electrons for cars.

 

adding another credit, federal or state, is going to be unpopular. EVs can assist in the natural expansion of clean electric generation while leveraging existing distribution and passively incentive the adoption of smart grid technologies (off-peak demand).

What might be a more subtle approach is to attach RECs to EVs that utilities can get by spurring Plug-In adoption in their service areas, i.e. free charging.

The RECs could be allocated based on the kWh consumed by the EV and the gallons of gasoline avoided, or the CO2 avoided.

This approach is a bit counter for getting utilities to bring RE online, but it does get them further into the arena by reducing fossil fuel consumption in their service area.

 

The bulk of the phv sales were forecast in Japan, that is where they are greatly behind forecast. Forecasts were a vague 15K cars, but not a specified time period in the US. If it is in a year they should make it. If it is in 2012 they will fall short, but not by a huge margin. I don't think states need to add to the $2500 federal subsidy. Toyota could boost sales in the US by adding states like texas and Illonois, and providing dealer incentives.

Toyota tends to take the long view, and the phv is already likely deep into a generation 2 redesign.

 

Toyota Dealers Not Interested In Selling Electric Cars, Prefer Hybrids

 

Since dealerships are also service centers, and hybrids still have an oil change requiring ICE, is it any wonder dealers aren't interested in selling BEVs.

Toyota is correct in cancelling the eQ. Not because electric cars don't meet societies needs. They aren't ready for the mainstream with the current generation of cars' ranges. They can still work for many, and the batteries are improving.

The reason for cancelling the eQ was because it is an iQ. Alright, electric cars are mostly going to be urban cars in the beginning. So why not use the best urban car frame. The problem is that the frame is too small and limits battery placement. You either will have too short a range with a small battery, or lose the back seat.

On top of that, the mini car market is small in North America, and the iQ is probably the one with the lease amount of character. Smart was the original here, with quirky styling and interchangable plastic body panels. Plus, there was a small cult following years before it was available. The Fiat 500 has unique styling, and can be considered an economical Mini Cooper. The iQ is just a much shorter Scion xB.

The same can be said for the Chevy Spark. It has the styling of the Sonic. It can be bought for around $3000 less than an iQ. Which makes the limitations of the small form more acceptable. It is also technically not a true mini car based on size. So maybe the EV version will be able to carry a battery large enough for better range. I also have seen one driven by a private citizen.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zqrSljadr6Y/UHQ7J7gdddI/AAAAAAAAX3Y/Z-5qEtuWca4/s1600/USA_small-car-sales-chart-september-2012.jpeg
Last month
iq 683 sales
smart 1030
spark 2223
fiat 500 4176

Even if every iq was electric, it still would be a failure. fiat 500 and spark have a chance but sales are much less than the versa where the leaf is based. I don't see this city car thing. Leaf needs better styling and more upscale features not to shrink. Give people a compact to midsize with 100 mile pack and upscale features. Put the pack as part of the chasis like the ford transit connect, tesla S, Toyota Rav4 ev. Come 2015 they may be selling well. That iq idea is just wrong for the US.

The problem is its a cheap car with an expensive battery. Initial adopters want something more. The price isn't low enough to hit another target market.

 

I really can't stress enough how much the skateboard design for the battery pack works so well.
Increase available space for passengers and/or cargo.
Improve handling with lower center of gravity.
Improve body rigidity and safety.
I would love to see more cars adopt this design.

 

Yes. People need to understand that manufacturer, like Toyota, isnt here to propagate some agenda like reduce oil usage. They will make cars when it makes sense. They dont care about losing money on EVs, they dont need them for marketing like some do, as they have hybrids and they make money on them.

Long term view and betterment of the country and human kind is done by Governments... this is why we elect them.

So if USA and Japan and any other country wants reduced oil usage through EV, they need to create business environment where it is good for Corporations to do that, where they can make money on it.

Personally, I think that current sales are OK - everything is going on some decent pace, you have to walk before you can run. As long as Tesla sells ok amount of vehicles, come 2015 we could see decent uptick in number of EV's... and with next generation in 2020, even better.

But some people are unrealistic to expect some huge growth and big numbers. As we can see, Fisker would be happy with 50k cars in 2020. Those are very low numbers.

Huge growth can only come through consistent and Huge help from the government and/or increased cost of fuel so where EV's actually make financial sense.

Reason Hybrids sell now is because you can get your money back plus heck why not help the environment. We need to get there with EVs and PHEVs... that means a lot of work on battery technology, pricing, chargers, etc, etc, all of which dont really exist now but this is a start and it is getting better.

I think that makes sense, you?

 

It makes sense, and I think the plug-in market is doing well for its age. The Volt is selling well for its price. Prius PHV sales will pick up once it goes nationwide. The Ford Energis will be here soon.

Tesla isn't ramping up as quickly as they wanted, but Toyota nad Mercedes went to them for their EVs. The Leaf is in a slump, but so has the economy been, and BEVs are still at second family car stage. Thus easy to forgo when cash is tight. As long as the PHVs gain groand, the BEVs will follow.

I think Toyota is being too far sighted in regards to dropping their in house EVs, and preparing to bring a FCV to market.

It doesn't really work for the US. We are spread out, and are just more willing to drive further distances. In Europe and Japan stuff is just closer together, and they have nice rail systems for trips too short for plane and too long for car.

Between taxes, insurance, and other fees, the ownership cost of a car is higher with a bigger difference between city cars and the larger ones. Here the difference is mostly confined to the sale price. Two grand is about all it takes to get from a Spark to a Sonic, and I think the difference between the iQ and xD is small enough that most people would just gloss it over.

Now I like the Smart and 500, but they are unique, at least here. I think they sell because they can attract people like the old VW Bug once did. They are more than just a small car. They have character and customability to them to allow a person to make them their own(the 500 has, like 15 different colors available). Smart's uncar campaign sums it up well.

I'd love to test drive them, but I don't realistically expect to own one.

 

Did they drop the IQ EV because despite being sold in the US, it was more likely aimed at the European and Japanese markets? Not sure what the home market is like for Toyota at the moment, but car sales in most of Europe are down and down massively! As such, any chance of selling a low range, relatively expensive niche car is unlikely to say the least.

New car sales in Greece are down over 50%, Spain down 36%, Italy 25% and France down 18%. Even Germany has sales down 1.8%, with only the UK bucking the trend with an increase in sales of 8%. With the dreadful sales figures unlikely to get better in the near term, it is likely to put more pressure on the most expensively priced BEV's, PHEV's and even Hybrids.

A rocky road ahead.


BBC News - European car sales 'fall for 12 months in row'

 

On top of that Japan may become even a worse market for plug-ins in 2013. That makes the US and China the cheif markets for plug-ins and the iq doesn't make sense in either market.

 

...give me a hint Zyth what you mean by skateboard batt design.
Does some car currently have this design?

 

Leaf and Model S are examples of skateboard design. The battery is the floor between the 4 wheels, like skateboard.

 

I also think the iMiEV, RAV4, and maybe Transit Connect conversions use it. The Focus EV didn't. I think a different company did it than the T.C.

I don't know of PHV that use it. Likely because of exhaust plumbing. The Audi A1 E-tron could have taken advantage of it with its rear mounted genset.