Toyota Drops Electric Car (eQ) Sales Plans

Yeah, but Nissan's Leaf US sales have been on a downward trajectory. Just look at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Worldwide Plugin Sales Numbers.

Toyota already has a job selling the regular iQ in the US. See Toyota | August 2012 Sales Chart. Look at Smart sales at August 2012: Big Jumps Edition. There simply seems to be virtually no demand for that class of car in the US vs. the rest of the light vehicle market or even compared to econoboxes/compact cars.

 

This is essentially the bottom line. Not enough of a market yet. And all of the things he points at are currently true. The car that sells is going to be a moderately priced one that can travel 400-500 miles on a charge, not be restricted to 62MPH, and takes no more than three hours maximum to completely charge from an "empty" state.

There are cars that can do that now, but they are not moderately priced. And, they aren't selling like hotcakes, either. Maybe when gas hits $10/gal, as is surely will within the next twenty years or so, we'll see more of a market.

 

Unlike the Volt, which sells mainly in the US, the majority of Leaf sales are outside the US and globally it has sold around 40,000 now. I'm not sure if it's on an upward trajectory or not.

Fuel cell is the biggest pipe dream of them all. The fact that Toyota has a FC vehicle in 2015 is truly meaningless, since now you're paying through the nose for the vehicle and you absolutely have to fill it up at a special station. Will be ages before it's viable to any meaningful portion of the country, and even then there's no assurance at all that batteries won't mature to the point that FC just becomes pointless.

 

I think just price has to come down. I think if a Nissan Leaf could be had all day for $19-20k they'd sell like hotcakes, even in their current form with current shortcomings. Of course gas at $10 wouldn't hurt to push some people along But as you say, battery tech is getting there, it's just wicked pricey right now--still way, way cheaper than FC, however.

 

I thought that price, too, was most important, but that might only be for people who still have to have a gasser around for "long trips". Then it feels like an EV is more like a scooter or glorified golf cart. People will use it around town, and maybe a little farther, but won't use it for commutes unless the commute is easily within the range of the EV (with some left over for emergencies, etc.) Worst case with having only an EV would be if it was stone cold depleted and you needed to get out of Dodge in a hurry. The wildfires around here recently have brought that to mind.

 

When the '11 Leaf was still available, in CA, not including taxes, the SV model was around $21K after the $7500 Federal tax credit and $5000 CVRP.

Unfortunately, Nissan raised prices (2012 Nissan Leaf gets higher price tag, more standard equipment) and the CVRP is now only $2500.

 

...that's a good question GC as I also know fuel cells have been proposed that generate H2 in-situ from other fuels. Perhaps they should say H2FC so we know what they are talking about.

 

What I found most disappointing is not he miniEV, which I always wondered about, but the data burried in there about the prius PHV.

I had presumed that a big part of the PHVs weak us sales were the Yen problem and the EV range being a bit short for the US buyer. But this says that even in Japan they are way under target. Not good. (If this was volt info there would be people pouncing on that). Any one have any info why its not selling in Japan?

 

I don't think the phv sales are that weak given the market conditions and the car. We should give the car a chance, and Toyota a chance to educate dealers on how to sell it. This may include factory to dealer incentives. It does give toyota customer feedback to build better phevs in the future.

Japan is a bigger problem for the phv. Toyota targeting this market and seems to have missed. Part of it may have much to do with the price. It is much more expensive than toyota is selling it for in the US. The Japanese government is also giving massive subsidies for regular hybrids, which has helped the prius liftback and aqua, but may make the prius phv look relativey more expensive. IMHO of the Japanese market, the next gen phv if it is built more to US needs, will hit the Japanese market better as well. The higher electric rates may also be part of the reason.

 

The PIP has poor sales here too, but personally I think Toyota's heart just hasn't been in the plug in or EV market for a while now. The PIP is way way overpriced here in the UK; getting on for a third more than the base version. You would seriously need your head to be looked at if you thought £31,000/$50,000 was good value for a PIP. OK there's a £5k grant to deduct but even then it's a lot of money. I wanted one and if they'd priced it to match other markets (inc our taxes) I'd have bought one, but £31k for a Prius that does 10 miles? lol nah.

 

GC, do PiP Drivers get a free hall pass to drive downtown London -without having to pay the congestion charge? Or is that just pure electric vehicles.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

Will toyota discontinue the PIP next year? With this poor sales and demands, who knows

LT26i ? 2

 

They have sold 15K globally, which is fine. Toyota can't afford to drop out of the plug-in market. A redesign is do out soon, and NA manufacturing would greatly help on the cost side.

 

They do but the area is only a few square miles. Any new car (petrol, diesel, hybrid or EV) that gets under 100g/km is able to drive into the center of London for free (well you need to register and pay £10 a year for the pleasure). So a Leaf would be OK as would a PIP but also a normal gen3 Prius or even many new smaller petrol or diesel cars too. Pay £31k for a Leaf or PIP or pay £10k for a small petrol hatchback like a Fiesta 1.0 Eco.

But apparently only 200,000 people work in this area, parking is nigh on impossible. To add balance, there are another 25 million car owners in the UK who don't travel into central London who might consider a PIP or Leaf or similar.

You have picked up on my bugbear. Many manufacturers don't really know what to do with the PIP or EV they've been told to sell by HQ in Japan or the US, so imagine they're for rich folk in the center of London and price them accordingly. What they forget is that if you can afford to pay £20m/$32m on a house there, you're not going to care about paying £10 a day for your chauffeur to drive your Rolls Royce into town either.

Word on the UK EV forums is that EV's here should get access to UK wide HOV and bus lanes. Until then, they'll remain curios for the rich of London (or at least not sell very well)

 

...you have my theory on Post#5 that the Tsunami wiped out the nuke power source intended for Plug-Ins and EV's in Japan. Nobody likes that idea, but I am sticking to it for now. AG says its because elec is more expensive in Japan and EV's are not heavily subsidized like in US; rather Japan subsidizes conventional no-plug Hybrids. I think that is almost the same thing I am saying. And while we are on the subject, we doesn't USA give better incentives for Hybrids?

 

Right now, the PIP has a $2000 off and 0% interest deal to get some movement going. There's a bunch of them at the dealers around here.

 

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We're broke.

The way I see it is that we've had some type of incentive on hybrids since 2001, possibly longer.New, higher CAFE requirements are going into effect. So there is a push on the supply side now for higher mpg vehicles. That will give the manufacturers a higher incentive to introduce hybrids into fuel thirsty segments. A hybrid incentive would just help sell more of what they already have, not necessarily expand the hybrid market. Then any incentive for them now would hurt plug in sales more than get someone to trade in a non hybrid. So it is time for hybrids compete against the other fuel saving tech on their own.

 

Call me crazy but here's a wacky idea ... stop subsidizing gasoline so that we pay the same high price as most of the rest of the world. Watch how fast plug in sales increase. I know . . . . that's crazy talk.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

Isn't the rest of the world's(Europe, Japan) high gas prices mainly do to taxes?

I agree our prices are low.