Chevy stops Volt production (temporarily ...)

Two-mode has shown to be a failed cause for personal sized vehicles do to costs. It was the first attempt at a 'real' truck hybrid. I haven't heard anything about dropping it for buses and commercial vehicles.

Marketing and greed marred BAS's introduction. eAssist will be available in for 4 models soon. Most here wouldn't call it a hybrid, but if priced right, it can have a sizable impact on fleet fuel economy. Of course GM needs to work on there cars weight.

GM bungled what they had with the EV1. They have admitted as much. Let's be honest here though, Toyota didn't do much better with the original Rav4 EV. Even now they farmed it out to Tesla.

 

Don't forget that Honda also crushed their CARB mandated EVs at the same time GM crushed the EV1. Nobody seems willing to foist the same level of hate towards Honda for their actions.

The ONLY reason why the Volt is hated, is because a domestic car maker built it.

 

Wolfman, that is nonsense.
There are a lot of reason to mistrust GM. A few of my personal ones are past treatment by GM dealers, past quality issues with GM products, GM flagrantly misleading marketing (recall the 230 mpg brag?), GM spokesmen insulting not only the Prius but personally insulting anyone who drove one.

 

Wow! Talking about out of touch with mainstream need.

 

While I agree there is double standard, and support the volt, the hate is not just because the Volt is domestic.

People cut Ford much more slack because GM really did make far more error in the past. Its also because the Volt is more controversial on multiple levels, where again GM made big claims and while it delivered on many it was a bit short on some, making some feel they were up to their old tricks.

Then there is the jelously/fear issues, where some people hate it because it really did deliver a fantastic vehichle with overall efficency well beyond existing hybrids, which threatens the feeling of superiourity of those that have invested in other brands. And to those with a deep investment in oil, any EV/PHEV that reduces dependency on oil is something to destroy.

Also the whole bailout and bond holder issue was real, and some people really lost money which can lead to hate. And even for those that did not personally loose, it gives political fodder for those that want to hate the current president. (Most people don't know that ford just got lucky on timing and raised money in 2007, so happened to have enough cash to survive with less from the bailout (just loans).

So while there is double standard, the Volt gets hate for many more reasons than just being domestic.

 

What started as subtle downplay amplified as the time progressed, turning into some rather intense exchanges.

At this point, it's becoming very easy to see that Volt is overkill, the same over-engineering problem we've seen with other consumer products. A good analogy is trying to sell a SLR camera to someone who is simply looking for a point & shot. Arguments about value are valid, but they don't actually fit requirements and are more than the budget can afford.

Toyota's priority focus differs significantly from GM, which Volt enthuasiasts now see... hence so much of the old propaganda falling on deaf ears. The mainstream audience simply isn't looking what had been given so much attention.

 

Wow really John. Don't you think your analogy is a little dated. How about trying to sell a dslr to someone happy with their camera phone.

I'm not sure why you think toyota is not going to make the next generation phv with a bigger battery. That is the way the market looks to be going. Your propaganda that 11 miles cd is enough sounds like propaganda. Battery prices have indeed dropped. Your fanboism simply is devoid of facts. Maybe you should check out the current stuff coming about of toyota on batteries. Your information is as outdated as someone today buying a film point and shoot. I see most people shooting with their phones or dslrs today.

Is the iphone over kill, or is it a well engineered product? When the first smart phones came out they were expensive and few bought them, just like today's phevs. Going cheap was not the way to get the technology advanced.

 

The Volt is overkill only for people wo drive less than 15miles a day... which from a recent study is only 15% of drivers


Toyota's focus, as it should be, is about their bottom line profits, and with the lead they have in the hybrid lines they don't need to invest to develop new technology. They can keep milking their investment from a decade ago for many more years. GM, however, needed to invest again in a new direction, after their two-mode proved ineffective for cars, and the truck/suv market continued, for the most part, to shun hybrids. The Volt may be overkill for you, but for many people it has hit the mark quite.


I agree with you that the mainstream audience is not focused on either vehicle class and is not focused on fuel efficiency, reducing gas or the environment. The leading three cars all get no better gas milage than my 1995 honda. Sales data shows that the mainstream is generally only interested in a balance of low cost with some comfort (camery/accord/cruze) or perceived utility (trucks/SUVs). Neither the Volt or the Prius fit either of those criterion, and both have a hybrid/phev premium. That's why the Prius family combined was only #13 in august sales and the liftback (considered on its own) would not be in the top 25. And the volt only at #133 year to date sales (among 267 vehicles types sold).

We need different cars for different types of buyers, and we need to develop the next generation technology. The Volt is the first of that next generation and yes its a little expensive. But if people were not buying the early generation digital cameras, which were way more expensive then film, you'd still be using film. If nothing elseyou shoud be glad GM did the volt because it pushed/embarrassed Toyota into finally doing a PiP.

 

Since when is there an EV purity requirement?

The actual goal is to significantly improve emission, not eliminate gas/oil consumption all together.

And yes, we all see the downplay of price rather than the acknowledgement that capacity will be increased as cost permits.

That digital camera "early generation" reference doesn't work either, since the analogy comparing SLR and point & shoot were both digital.

It was not about film replacement, it was about capacity & cost.

 

Who's 'goal'? My actual goal is a combination of things. One, to reduce emmission (both local and at the plant) and ALSO to eliminate gas consumption.
Your goals may not include the second part, but that doesn't mean your mythical "actual goal" matches all buyers goals.

 

Point and shoot and SLR are both film terms. If you meant digital you should have said dslr and compact camera. The cheap digital cameras have been replaced by smart phones, but the first ones were camera phones. If I misintepreted that your analogy was ancient with respect to technology, well hey, you were quite unclear.

The iphone is clearly relevant to the discussion. I did buy the first model, and one of its faults compared to my previous phone was lack of a led for the camera. The phone was, as you keep harping on, over engineered and expensive. We get to today, and the iphone 5 looks like it will be a significant part of gdp. Going inexpensive would not have helped apple. This is a proper analogy for phevs. GM probably missed some features, like that led, not in the iphone until the 4 (classic, 3G, and 3GS diding have it). But people liked the other smart phone features.

Yes the early camera phones cost more than a camera + phone The camera wasn't as good as a compact digital camera (note AFAIK never were called point and shoot). People use them because of we would rather carry one device than 3 (ipod, phone, camera), we always have our smart phones on us, and they have cameras. If you want top quality you buy that DSLR.

I don't think you understand the changing technologies if you think digital was about lower prices. Most of us would pay more for digital, fortunately we don't have to pay.

The same is true of phevs, many are willing to pay for higher battery capacity. We only need to look to the aftermarket for evidence of this. The phev market is not about low price. That is the yaris and versa market.

Some in HOV states will choose the lowest cost to the carpool lane though.

 

Maybe that explains your misunderstanding. You think your goals are everyone's goals. As I pointed out to you before, many of Volt buyers are not in it for the environment.. The poll results at
Why do you want a plug-in Volt?
Looks like this

• 1.) Environmental - I think the Volt will help save the environment.​

  ​

  20​

  10.47%​
• 2.) Patriotic – We need to get off the addiction to foreign oil.​

  ​

  75​

  39.27%​
• 3.) Financial - $4 a gallon gas is killing me. I need cheaper transportation.​

  ​

  36​

  18.85%​
• 4.) Cool Factor – I’m an early adopter and this car is cool.​

  ​

  46​

  24.08%​
• 5.) Other​

  ​

  14​

  7.33%​

So its sad to say that "environmental" coniderations did not even make the top 3 reasons. There are a few, like me, that do place the environment high and want to shift as much as I can to renewable sources, and the Volt lets me do that. But far more about about shifting off of foreigh oil. So in that sense the volt is appealing to different demographic than the prius family, and it is good to have both.

 

Not threatened but hijacked.

The green movement started by Prius had low emission as #1 priority and efficiency #2. Volt hijacked that and turned it into pure EV mile and domestic fuel.

Out of the box, Volt has higher emission than a regular Prius (using national average grid emission). Prius PHV is the leader in term of lowest emission (tailpipe and beyond) that also provide the largest interior volume and lowest price, of any plugin hybrid. The upcoming Ford C-MAX Energi should also inherits similar benefits of blended PHEV design.

 

Let's see, the original prius goal was 50% better fuel economy, and some vague goals of lower tailpipe emissions. That seems to indicate that toyota's number 1 goal was fuel efficiency. Probably goals numbers 2 and 3 - reasonable cost and low emissions meant atkinson not diesel. Does anyone think if Toyota had lean burn technology like honda, they would not have increased NOx to get higher fuel economy? If the number 1 goal was tailpipe emissions they would have

Toyota's ZEV at the time, the rav4 ev, did not worry about electrical generation pollution, so your point is historically inacurrate. The prius marketed to the environmental movement, they did not create it, nor do they control it. Thinking that the environmental movement is controlled by a large foreign corporation is insulting.

I realize that you have the 2007 national grid ghg emissions tatooed on your arm as part of your talking points, but this has been thoughly debunked in previous threads, and you bringing it up again is why I am replying.

1) Those that care about ghg, live either in places where the carbon intensity of electricity is lower than average, or have access to purchase renewable.

2) This is not a prius versus volt thread, but if the prius phv was killing the volt it would have higher sales, not lower. I hope both with expand the green market. Your zero sum game really means you hate phevs in general. If you don't stop the comments.

3) In charge depletion mode, the mode people pay extra for a phev, the volt uses less energy than the prius phv according to the epa. The amount is not significant, but the volt is more efficient.

 

Sorry, we we can hear the fear in your typing.

Do you have a source for the statement that Prius ha those as goals? And since the Insight Gen1 was lower emissions, and was introduced in the US 9 months before the Prius, its hard to say it was the source of the green movement. And the EV1 was even earlier than both. So the Volt is just GM retaking their role in EV related vehicles.

Oh not, not that silly argument again. The national grid average does not matter. People use their regular grid or can choose to buy renewables. The Prius PHV is a leader only for those people that live in one of the 34 states where the grid is not clean and the owner chooses not to buy green energy. If the owner is concerned about the environment then they should be shifting as much of their energy usage to renewables. So the Prius PHV is a good choice for people that have very short commutes or those that don't really care about he environment but want to look like they do.

 

Hijacked is a very odd choice of words.
The Volt gives people a choice. Those for which the Volt better meets their needs or wants in a car, now have a better choice. Those for which a Prius better fits their needs have their choice.
And for over 60% of the population for whom the CO2 emmissions are lower for a Volt than a Prius, they now have a more environmentally friendly choice.

 

Who is the market for Volt ?

 

Well, world has decided which choice they like better and thus Chevy stops Volt production thread... right?

 

Yep, record sales. I guess you misread the news.

 

Coming up well short of projected & required numbers, but doing better than previous months, is still short regardless of how it is labeled.

40k projected (automaker revision at the beginning of the year)

60k required (mainstream mininum & expectation for year #2)

We were told this generation of Volt would become a popular vehicle for middle-market. That isn't happening...