Declining EV every day after full charge??

I think the "gotcha" is that the EPA test scenario has a hard acceleration at 6 miles, which causes the ICE to kick in on the PiP. Even though there is plenty of charge left, since the ICE started, that is the number reported by the EPA test for pure EV.

Unlike some other (non-automotive) products I know about, the Toyota engineers didn't put special programming in the PiP to get a higher number on this specific benchmark. This decision must have been hard on the marketing folks.

 

why magically at 6 miles?

 

Your math is wrong. To get 11 miles at 95mpge using a 3kw from the wall charge the car used .028 gallons, not .2.'

The 6miles All electric range is based on when the "hill" in the EPA tests shows up that requires more acceleration than the Prius PHV can provide. If the "hills" were at the end it might have been almost 11, if it was at the begining it might been just 1.

 

The EPA needs to mow down this "hill" No "hills" in Clawson Michigan

 

If I remember the history of the generation of the dataset.. the "hill" is really a acceleration on a "onramp". I think of the data as acceleration demands.. so a "hill" is just a increased demand for accelerations. I don't know clawson, but other parts of michigan do have changing acceleration demands, hence "EPA hills"

 

yup, you're right. I'm glad I don't have "hills" to worry about. ( there is a small incline on one of the side streets where I live, but ICE never comes on when I go up this incline.)

 

I did read that wrong... the EPA has 3.2kW used in 11 miles and 0.022 gallons. Or $0.08 of gas and $0.38 of kWh. Or $0.042/mi for EV

 

So the EV range number in the EPA test is absolutely meaningless for the Pip. If the "hill" hadn't been as "steep" and thus didn't require help from the ICE, or if the "hill" were placed somewhere else in the test scenario, then the number would be completely different. The designer of the test scenario clearly had not envisioned the mix-n-match power strategy in the PiP. Were they assuming that the ICE would never kick in unless the battery was exhausted?

How does this test work for the Volt? Obviously the "hill" does not cause the ICE in the Volt to kick in, or it would also be rated at 6 miles EV.

 

I just got 21 miles on a 15 mile charge and still had 6 miles left when I got home. Not beaureautratical, theoretical nor sticker manure, but FACTUAL.

 

kewl! hilly over there?

 

No, about 1/2 on freeway in Power mode ( nice long regen glides ) Then the other 1/2 in suburbia at speed limits in EV/Eco.

 

The Volt has a much bigger battery (16kWh Lithium Ion). It runs on the battery up to 100mph. It isn't like a Prius at all. I believe the Prius monitors requested current/kW and decides what it needs. The Volt just monitors the voltage level of the LiIon pack and then kicks in the ICE to act as a generator when the battery is too low. The Volt says 35 mile EV range, which makes sense because PIP uses 3 to 3.3kWh compared to 10 to 14kWh (or whatever it is when the battery is too low). The Volt uses 4kWh to go those first 11 miles like the Prius, but it still has 10kWh more it can use after that and is designed to handle higher currents.

(It has way better battery cooling and since it is a larger battery it can handle higher currents because of the 10C type discharge allowed, so it can handle 3 to 4x higher current without damaging the battery. So no matter how fast to accelerate, the Volt can handle it. The Prius just has too tiny of a battery and relies on the ICE when you request too much current out of the HV battery. But it is lighter and the inverter doesn't need as large of a design and can get away with air cooling batteries (in the past). (not sure about the 2012 since LiIon get way hotter).

 

We've confirmed that. You can see it on the analysis graph.

It works out to a "gotcha" of a different nature. Anyone who claims only 6 is either clueless or intentionally attempting to mislead... because it doesn't take much to wonder why 11 miles is also listed in the rating.

 

First, it is kWh, not kw
Second, if you mean EPA, it is wall to wheel, not "mg2/hybrid"

Third, many of us care about source fuel energy/distance because of its import wrt to pollution, cost, and climate change. The ratio changes because of differing thermal efficiencies.

 

has anyone checked the leaf boards for signs of suze?

 

Can you take a snapshot of your 14 mile EV range on your dash? I'd like to see it. Mine is at 11.1. After the very 1st couple of charges it remained at 13.9 then it dropped to 11.9, then 11.6, 11.5, 11.3 and now 11.1.
Isn't what they mean by not leaving it fully charged is for more than a few days? I have $40K in rc helicopters that use expensive Lithium Polymer batteries and it's the same principle I've spent more than $10K on all the Li-Poly packs I have. What I don't understand is let's say someone's EV range after a full charge starts at 7 miles. So after a full chage that person will only be able to drive approximately 7 miles give or take? That's hardly worth the trouble of bringing out the charging cable, and charging it for a few hours for 7 miles.

 

seems the range here is between 6 and 20 miles with most in the 10-14 mile range. it depends on you topography and driving style. it would be nice to know before you buy but they are probably difficult to find in rentals.

 

I just hope that the 2013 model doesn't offer a greater EV range. (I'll be pissed) I kept telling my sales associate that I bet it will! He kept trying to reassure me that it will not. He said because Toyota put years and years of testing into this car before it went into production, it's not likely that it will change.

 

i'm sure he's right, things don't change that quickly in the battery business.

 

No, that value is just an estimate based on previous driving data.

You still get the full capacity regardless of what's displayed.

EV simply means when the engine is off, not when plug-supplied electricity is used.