Nissan launches Serena S-Hybrid minivan in Japan

36MPG minivan is pretty good.

 

That's with the fake Japanese cycle. Like Europe they use fantasy numbers not indicative of real MPG--it said it gets 25% better than the non-hybrid. This is not fantastic, but then the $2500 price premium really is not massive, either, so perhaps it's worth something.

Still, I remain impressed by the Highlander Hybrid, which gets around 50% better combined--though its price premium is gargantuan.

 

I traded in my 10 year old Sienna when I bought my Prius v last year. Overall, I am very happy with the Prius v but I do have an occasional need to carry six people. A hybrid minivan might be just what I need. I have not heard of any plans to offer a hybrid minivan in the US unfortunately.

 

The Sienna is a bit heavier than the Highlander. HiHy is 28/28 and that'd be about what I'd expect from a SiHy, with perhaps a bit better highway rating.

 

I rather see a SiHy than a HiHy. I was waiting for it too. Can't wait, and pulled the triggered on a minivan already.

The weight issue is not that big an issue for me, as the minivan will be more highway touring than just grocery getter.

 

Minivan? This is one of those Japanese micro vans. And the system is basically a BAS - which everyone here pretty much hates.

 

What a box.

 

I downsized my Odyssey last year for a Highlander Hybrid, it was about the only 3-row vehicle with significantly better fuel economy. It is a big step down in cargo space and third row seating comfort, though. I'd have definitely considered a hybrid minivan.

Perhaps the reason we haven't seen a hybrid minivan is the same reason we don't see more hybrid midsize SUVs. Even though it may be a 50% increase in fuel economy, a sub-30 mpg rating doesn't sound nearly as impressive as 40 or 50 mpg. Will people be willing to pay the premium? Not even 500 per month pay the premium for the Highlander Hybrid...

 

its a mild hybrid :-(.

As to the HH, it is restricted in availability since Toyota is pushing RX450h. However Sienna with Camry HSD would be fast enough and probably get almost double the MPG in real life compared to V6.

So yeah, it is coming... people will pay $2.5k more for easy 10-15 MPG more. But I would guess it has to wait new Sienna or at least some significant face-lift.

 

But would they pay $5k extra or more for an additional 5-10mpg based on EPA ratings, like the Highlander Hybrid? Based on the added weight of the Highlander Hybrid, you're probably looking at a 5000 lb. Sienna. I suspect gas needs to hit $5 a gallon before Toyota could sell enough to pay for the investment.

 

IIRC the sienna is on the Camry platform. They could probably pop most of the Camry hybrid system into the mini van. This platform is more powerfull than the stock 4 cylinder currently sold. The added weight might be better addressed with a more powerful battery, which may mean using lithium like they are doing in the alpha in japan. I wouldn't expect it until a redesign, maybe in 3 years.

I don't think it will take a great deal of R&D.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's as easy as popping in a Camry hybrid system and bigger battery into the existing Sienna. If it was, I'd have thought they would have released a hybrid minivan years ago. I suspect the R&D costs are significant enough to where they must feel demand would not make it profitable. Otherwise, some wise company could have filled this pent up demand or one would at least be appearing at auto shows already. I was also hoping the 7-seater Alpha variant would make it here before I bought my Highlander, but they opted to market the Prius V with only 5 seats for some reason. Ford opted not to bring the 7-seater Grand C-Max to the USA as well.

I wonder if the minivan market is just shrinking too much in general? GM and Ford no longer make one. Kia looks like it won't have one, at least for 2013. Maybe the soccer mom stigma has finally taken its toll and a hybrid minivan is just one of the victims.

 

R&D costs should not be significant. They are spreading the 2012 camry hybrid system into other platform mates -Avalon and Lexus ES. But this is basing them on the 2012 camry. Earlier models are not designed in the same way. This benifits from the lower costs of using the hybrid system in the high volume Camry hybrid.

Minivans are also in a cost sensitive part of the market. Combine these things, and you will realize why lots aren't filled with hybrid minivans. To minimize space for the power full battery, you also want lithium, which toyota has just started using because of lowered costs.

They didn't think the alpha would sell at the price they would charge in America. Th ford grand c-max was never a hybrid. Ford thought it weighed too much.

The ford explorer got more minivan like I never liked the segment, but I'm sure 2015 is around the right year for toyota to profitably bring out a hybrid mini-van.

 

This is what I'm saying. You have to pay off the development costs and earn profits. If the demand isn't there to support the necessary pricing, yeah, that's probably why no one is rushing into this segment.

 

Then you have the 2.0 ecoboost Explorer matching the 28mpg on the highway. The city is still lower, but then Ford's start/stop system isn't available on it yet. Yes, the Explorer doesn't have AWD, but it also doesn't lose cargo space to a battery.

Between improved ICEs and other fuel saving tech, like start/stop and regen braking(Mazda has a system for non hybrids), the fuel economy of hybridized larger vehicles may not be high enough to get people to pay extra or accept the space loss.

 

We probably are just talking past each other.

When they redesigned the camry hybrid they did most of the R&D to put it in a vehicle like the sienna. The major part still to be done is provide a more powerful battery find a place to put it. Most of this work was done getting a lithium battery in the alpha, but more needs to be done. It should not be expensive though. The camry hybrid system is only about 100 lbs more than the V6, so suspension can stay the same. That means when they do a redesign R&D to make it a hybrid is very low.

This is the problem with the costs of parts though, especially in the price sensitive part of the market. Using the same higher volume parts as the camry hybrid should help keep this number down. Its likely still $3K more expensive for similarly equipped models. For that extra money you get an extra 13hp and better gas mileage, but lose some cargo space. New cafe standards hit about that time, so I expect it will happen.

 

You are right... it only make sense too, but it takes time. It is hard to ask why Toyota isnt putting HSD in all of their cars, when they are... it just takes time.

Camry system would be perfect as it is, minor modifications are needed and I doubt you would lose any space, since it is quite an large car as it is.

Only question is if the car was engineered for it to start with or not. It came out rather recently, 2 years ago, right?