Ford C-Max Plug-in hybrid to have 20 mile range

$3,750 tax credit.

5+(16-5)*(3750-2917)/(7500-2917) = 7

Hmm?

 

That's impressive... and a bit of a head-scratcher how the market is actually going to react. We all hope the increase in interest will those who had already dismissed hybrids and excite those already into them.

Today I stopped at my local Toyota dealer to get a good close look at the c model, take one around for a spin with mom at the wheel. Whoa! I really caused a stir with my PHV. I ended up answering questions from the salespeople for quite awhile. They are definitely ready for the rollout here (Minnesota) next year. They see the potential. Price is the key.

Having Ford closer than expected to the base price of Toyota plug-in will stir the market. Hmm?

 

Anyone know the rollout plans for Energi. How many? Where? When?

 

In addition, diesel has more btu's per unit of fuel compared to gas. Somehow that greater amount of energy seems to get lost, when diesel proponents tout its higher mpg's.

.

 

True, but not applicable here since we are talking about the incremental fuel economy of the hybridization of a diesel.

 

Increment from smaller powered petrol car to hybrid car is more than 35%, increment from diesel car would be ??? I say 10%-20% with added cost of min 2.000 $ versus petrol hybrid.

 

Read my earlier posts, or go to Peugeot.fr for examples.

 

battery pack is listed at 7.5 Kw. there is discrepancies on the specs when accessing different informational sources. guessing the weight of the energi at 5,000 lbs is probably not correct. it is listed at 4,000 in other sources.

the MUCH bigger passenger space is noticable actually making it slightly larger than the new Escape or the same

 

CMax (hybrid) also weighs about 600 pounds more (3600 vs 3000) which gives us only about 20% advantage in power per unit weight.

CMax is also smaller in length.

I bet mileage is NOT going to be on par with Prius.
Still sounds like a good deal for the same or higher price?

= Alex

 

Bigger than what? According to specs CMax is shorter than Prius like 6 inches, and wheelbase is shorter too

- Alex

 

passenger volume is 6 Cu ft larger. that is a lot. C-max exceeds in every category in chart PiP on left, C-Max on right.

Head room F/R...38.6/37.6 ...41/39.4
Shoulder room...54.9/53.1...55.9/55.2
Hip room...52.7/51.2...54.3/51.9
Leg room...42.5/36.0...43.1/36.5

either way, i think the EV range is the real question. the 7.5 KW battery could provide a usable 6+ KW with thermal pack control. even with the extra weight, just averaging 3.5 miles/Kw would give the 21 mile estimated EV range

for people lucky enough to charge on both ends, they could be like the Volt and go months without using gas

 

I don't understand you. CMax exceeds everywhere?

Head room F/R38.6/37.6 41/39.4
Shoulder room54.9/53.155.9/55.2 ------------ 0.3" difference
Hip room52.7/51.254.3/51.9 ---------- PIP is better
Leg room42.5/36.043.1/36.5 ------------ PiP is much better

CMax is taller, that's true.

- Alex

 

C-Max Energi looks to be a better deal than Prius PHV, blindly looking at the price.

Has anyone looked at it with feature to feature comparison?

 

oi!!

OI!!!

in the first example you are comparing Front hip room on the PiP (52.7) with REAR leg room on C-Max

2nd example is also a front PiP to rear C-max


you really NEED to go see one. now i have not seen the PiP in person but guessing its size is not much different than my 2010 Prius liftback. the C-Max is bigger...it just is

 

It is less expensive after tax credits than the phv. You can hit the ford web site and build one to see how it prices with options.

First quarter of next year, ford hasn't said anything about limited role out, so I expect its the whole country. No sales estimates yet.

I get 10% more power/lb, 80+% longer charge depletion range. For the energi versus phv. I get 3986 lbs for the energi, but this might be wrong.

In charge depletion they are both 95 mpge.
In charge sustain c-max energi is not rated yet, but using the hybrid numbers
47city, 47hwy, 47 combined
versus prius phv
51city, 49hwy, 50 combined

Its not that far off, especially when you consider the extra passenger room and power. The c-max hybrid is much better on the highway than the prius v.

 

Ok, I guess the table is confusing.

- Aleks

 

ya, i added dots to help clarify.. in a nutshell, the C-Max is more like a LEAF, shorter but fatter. makes a much easier squeeze for 3 in the back. plus the PiP has a bigger nose so length comparisons really mean nothing.

on the chart its the shoulder room difference that should be empathized

 

2013 Ford C-MAX | View Full Engine Specifications | Ford.com
I don't think we will know the absolute charge depletion range until they have final firmware. They are estimating 95mpge, which means 2.8 miles/kwh from the plug. That means about 7 kwh from the plug for a 20 mile charge, which at 20% charging loss means a 79% SOC range. This number seems a little high, so perhaps they need to use gasoline on the test. There is not liquid cooling of the pack if that is what you meant by thermal control.

I like the fact of 85mph in electric mode, and 68kw peak battery power or about 90 hp peak in all electric. This along with gauges should allow those who want to do it to keep it electric if they want to.

Other interesting factoid is SULEV smog level 8 for the hybrid, and smog level 9 for the energi. Does anyone know what these smog levels mean.

 

no thermal control would be a huge mistake. look at the AZ LEAF issue going on now.

 

It maybe, or they may work fine. These are likely the same panasonic lithium cells developed with sanyo technology used in the prius phv. Both the ford energi and prius phv use fans and electronic controls to manage the cells. The chemistry is different than the leaf, and its likely SOC is managed in a more conservative manner.

Only time will tell whether these put up with the heat better than the leaf. The battery pack is only 7.5kwh versus 24kwh in the leaf, which means it is easier to cool.