Now that us pre-orderers have been through the wait and enjoying our PiPs for several months, did we pay a price for going first? A recent post on this group mentioned an Advanced PiP offered by a dealer at $36,000. A dealer's site lists Advanced models for $37,219. So even with the $500 group discount, Advanced pre-orders sold for about $2500 to $3800 more than some are priced now. Now, maybe these prices are not actual selling prices. They might get jacked up by dealer add-ons, or reduced in bargaining. But if they're anywhere close, then demand didn't drive the price way over sticker, as many of us predicted; in fact, the opposite happened. And apparently the thin profit margin that dealers told us about only applied to pre-orders. If that's accurate, it was Toyota and not the dealers that pocketed the windfall from selling close to MSRP. Well, that's the chance you take for going first. I'm still enjoying my PiP. But I might think twice about pre-ordering next time.
Everything is Supply and Demand. SomeTimes you win and sometimes you lose. I have a great car so thier are no sour grapes. I got a fair price for my 05, better than I would have gotten for any other make. Why, because these buyers wanted a PRIUS ! I will not plan on buying another car for at least 10 years now and it will have to be twice as good as the Pip.
I didn't pre-order with any expectation that availability would be constrained after the pre-orders were fulfilled. No one has money to burn, but there are some who don't have to worry about money as much as others. So clearly, those who pre-ordered did so with the thought that they'd be "first". And that's a privilege early adopters pay extra for. Whether it's first in line at a club, or at the races, or for a new home, or whatever, if you want to be first, you pay extra. I'm not surprised that prices have fallen to more reasonable levels. With the volume of other Prius options available this year, the PHEV was marginalized out of the gate. I would bet that less than 10% of all Prius buyers will purchase the PHEV. The benefits to an average driver are not great. Those who will benefit the most are ones who travel consistently within the car's EV range. Seeing the number of PHEVs hanging onto Dianne's list is just another indication that current demand is low for this type of vehicle. Mossy Toyota here in San Diego has 43 PHEVs on the lot right now, according to their available inventory. That's just crazy. And they can't sit on the lot forever. If you average the lot at $35K, then that's $1.4 million in rolling metal that's just rusting. Compare the MSRP of a current Prius Five at $29,805.00. Hot and loaded, they'd MSRP for about $35K - so a little less than the price differential between the PHEV BASE and ADV. What a buyer has to ask themselves now - and what Toyota and its dealers have to ask themselves as well - is what's the value added by the PHEV's battery. As someone who's had a PHEV for a few months now, I'd say that for me the value added is not significantly greater than a regular Prius. It's greater, sure, but not $5K greater. What makes it easier for me to rationalize, then, is the $4K in rebates and tax credits and the HOV lane sticker. Those added values brought the price in line with the Prius Five. So now, we just have to rationalize a Prius Five over any other model... YMMV
the good thing about preordering was we got the car we wanted. off the lot, color choice is more limited. half the fun was the anticipation! i would do it again for the right car. the price of gas is probably affecting inventory right now.
Did you think it was going to be easy, that the sales wouldn't require any effort on our part? If so, better read the forums & blogs from 2000 to 2002. Toyota remembers what happened back then. That's why the ramp up isn't until next year. Some of us participated in that history firsthand. We remember those times quite clearly. You never forget resistance to change like that. This year is the shake out. Those hoping to undermine exploit assumptions with the goal of creating & spreading misconceptions. It gets ugly, but we persist by sharing details real-world experiences and identify strengths. Our endorsements are a weapon they have little defense against. They panic and unknowingly reveal their fears. We point out how well thought out the design is, confirming it is an excellent solution for the masses. The key to literally "just drive it". The outcome speaks for itself. Rather than feeding hype, you convey realistic expectations based on lots of owner information. That's out of the hands of Toyota, something only we can do... and it worked amazingly well in the past. Toyota's role becomes that of the observer, collection every little suggustion we provide and taking it into consideration for the next generation. It's rewarding to look back upon later; however, quite an emotional rollercoaster along the way. Prepare for the onslaught from a wide variety of competitors... once they finally figure out how capable PHV actually is.
Since the Pip is now doing most of my math now, I no longer calculate mpg. Since I tank up so rarely, I don't keep track of that either. My electric bill went up to $6.00/month more. .20 a day. All in all, I realize that I and other PIPPERS are participating in a radical and progressive movement that will force automotive transportation to change. And perhaps other forms of transportation as well. Trucks, trains maybe even Airplanes. In earlier times the only knowledge of any type of revolution was your early demise.
Well, I opted for the Base model, so pre-ordering doesn't appear to have cost a price. On the contrary..... I could not be happier with this PiP ! Aside from the Fed tax credit, I've found it also qualifies for a couple unexpected GA tax credits, and it got me (qualifies for) the GA Alternative Fuel tag. Which mean single occ. HOV and toll free HOT lane access. Another unexpected bonus. Following some persistent VOLT owners advice, I kinda blazed the trail for PiP owners in GA! The ride, handling, size, refinement, comfort and feel of the Gen III is so much nicer than my Gen II, (still have it with 122,000 trouble free miles). And with the plug-in option, the Pip is an amazing car. I'm buying gas 1-2 times a month. And averaging 94 MPG consistently. Every time I fill up, I struggle to remember when the last time I bought gas was. Gas purchase is almost a non -issue in my life now.
It's good to see that many of us - me included - bought the PiP for reasons other than purely financial. And looking at the greater good, the fact that the market is pricing it more affordably should put a lot more PiPs on the road. While they're still rare, I'm enjoying having one of the first ones on the road, and hearing a lot of interest from friends and from owners of older Prii. A 12 mile electric range doesn't seem to turn people off, and my current 108 mpg, halfway through the tank, gets their attention.
If it wasn't for my detail record-keeping, I'd easily forget when. The MPG numbers are all over the place, different with each drive... but consistently awesome. See: My distances vary dramatically too... much like most people who drive more than just to & from work. See: Seeing that could very well explain why there's a pause following pre-order sales. How the heck are people suppose to make a purchase decision with so much variation. More data is needed before realistic expectations emerge.
Cost for electricity is a variable that we all too often neglect. It's not free, and in some areas, like here in So Cal, the tiered rates are as high as 29¢/kWh - and that tier is not difficult to reach in the summer. … so if I estimate close, and correct me if I'm way off, at the top tier rate I spend about $.90 per full charge. At 50MPG and 12 miles per charge, that means about 50 EV miles for $3.60. When gasoline is that price per gallon, I break even. Gas was as high as $4.45/gal this spring, but it's now "down" to about $3.75/gal. So for me, the cost of gas is about the same as the cost for electricity as far as fuel goes. And I think I'm being a little generous, since I figure I'm probably paying a little more than a dollar per full charge, if you consider voltage loss. At least around here, I would think that gas needs to hit $5 - and stay there awhile - for more people to get serious about any Prius, and more particularly the PHEV model.
On the other coast, with the demand low and what appears to be a small inventory, they are apparently doing a $1000 rebate and possibly a dealer incentive to get the #'s down ... that's really good pricing back east.
BFD, I called SDGE and entered a new sort of plan that levelizes my per-hour pricing. Call them, and tell them you have a plugIn vehicle. Email [email protected] FAX (858) 654-8393 Mail SDG&E, Rate Support Department, 8306 Century Park, CP 42i, San Diego, CA 92123 or email me, I will attach the form I did to lower my rates. Dianne
Did you get on the Time of Use rate? Do you get dinged if you charge outside the night time window? The folks at CCSE gave me some good info about options and a few names to get in touch with at SDG&E, but I haven't followed up on it yet.
Should anybody find anything out about special rates for SMUD, Sacramental Utility District please let me know . Right now they are requiring new wiring and some sort of special connector.About an extra $1000. SOME DEAL
The most fun I had during the time between the Pre-Order date and Deliveries was reading the posts of everyone following the ships from Japan. We didn't know for sure if the ship had our car, but the suspense was HIGH !!! New buyers of the PIP, and especially those buying off the lot, will NOT feel that excitement.
Trying to point out that history as it was unfolding didn't make much of an impression for some. Others got swept up in the moment, not realizing it was about to come to an abrupt end. Heck, even the quarreling with Volt owners was inevitably short lived. That's why those of us familiar with such experiences took full advantage of the rare opportunity. Now PHV is in the hands of owners. Answers to questions are only a post or two away. No more wonder. No more anticipation. We are participating in a different stage. Market progress is what we make of it. Hopefully, we do a good job of sharing our observations, enticing others to join in. It's a different sort of excitement at this point. Jitters from pre-order uncertainty and the intense anticipation of delivery has been replaced by discovery at the dealer. Just like in the past, the curious will crunch efficiency numbers and justify the well-balanced offering of features. But it isn't until they actually sit behind the wheel for a test-drive that the worth is confirmed. The rapid shut off of the engine and smoothness of the motor simply cannot be conveyed online. There's that eery silence too. Interestingly, the lack of excitement from plugging in at home adds to the well thought out nature of the design. You don't need to do anything special. PHV is basically just another portable device to recharge. You plug-in each evening much like you do with your smart-phone already. I'm thrilled to be among the early owners, knowing it won't be long for others to join in. The addition of an affordable plug is a natural next step, something easy to understand the benefits of. In a market quite finicky when it comes to matters of acceptance, that's a very good thing.
the ordering and wait and tracking were fun (and aggravating at times) but the driving is icing on the cake. not only is the ev great, but the pip is a big step up from the gen II in every way.
