Ford C-Max Plug-in hybrid to have 20 mile range

Hidden in the announcement was this: "Ford expects its Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid to get 100 MPGe." That will give Camry, Lexus and Nissan hybrid sedans a run for it. I'd expect Camry plug-in will be released at the same time as the Ford Fusion plug in.

 

Well the 2013 UK version of the Fusion, the Mondeo, will be very closely related to the US version this time. Let's hope that means we'll get hybrid and plug in versions also. I'm not holding my breath though. Ford Europe seems heavily influenced by Germany and thus will probably focus on diesel technology.

 

A Diesel plug in hybrid would be fantastic. 40 mpg range on just Diesel, add in hybrid would get the basic car to 60 mpg range and then add 20 miles of all electric and I'd have a 100 mpg vehicle. Moore's law of MPG, 16 mpg Explorer to 30 mpg Escape Hybrid to 50 mpg Prius to 100 mpg Ford or Volvo Diesel/Hybrid/Plug-in 2015. Not bad progress for 12 year period.

If $75K, Tesla Model X is ready, I'll go that route and no more fossil fuel.

 

Price is the unknown still and a major factor in the purchase decision.

I suspect MPG will be roughly similar to what I'm seeing, since my recharge average is 1.5 times per day. But we all know how much YMMV applies, especially when in comes to plug-in hybrids.

 

The 2013 Ford C-Max is suppose to compete with the 2012-2013 Toyota Prius v(ersatile) so here is a preliminary comparsion.. .

2013 Ford C-Max hybrid SE MRSP = $25,200
2013 Ford C-Max hybrid SEL MRSP = $28,200
compares to
2012 Toyota Prius v Two MRSP = $26,550
2012 Toyota Prius v Five MRSP = $30,140
===
Main specification differences
C-Max uses a 2.0L Atkinson cycle I4...Prius v uses a 1.8L Atkinson cycle I4
C-Max uses a Li-Ion Battery Pack....Prius v uses a NiMh Battery Pack
C-Max has a total of 188 HP...Prius v has a total of 134 HP
C-Max top electric speed is 65 mph....Prius v top electric speed is 46 mph
C-Max has no temporary spare tire....Prius v has a temporary spare tire
C-Max uses 17 inch wheels...Prius v uses 16 or 17 inch wheels
C-Max has 7 airbags...Prius v has 9 airbags (the extra 2 are frontseat mounted side airbags)
C-Max upgrade seats use leather... Prius v upgrade seats use Soft-Text
===============

FYI...
VW will introduce a Jetta Diesel Hybrid next year but it will reported only get 46 mpg on the highway ( its tuned for performance)
===============

hope this helps
Walter Lee
2010 Toyota Prius III, Blue Ribbon

 

The only benefit I see from that is while on roads with a 50 mph limit, suburb driving. Out on highways at 55 & 60, you'll run out of juice fast without a plug, and fuel-cut is quite efficient anyway.

65 mph is going to be a strange issue with the plug-in, more likely bragging rights than anything else... since going exactly 65 and no faster could be a challenge.

Doing 60 mph in EV with the PHV is pretty easy, since with it's max you've still got 2 more mph available. I personally enjoy 65 mph in EV-BOOST mode. Sustaining roughly 150 MPG is hardly a shortcoming.

 

Going 60 mph in electric mode only is useful is that it raises the bar when the gas engine is turned off while driving on the highway when the downhill grade is steep enough to support gliding at 60 mph with electric assist only, e.g. driving down a mountain in West Virginia, Pennsylvania or Ohio.

However, on a flat surface or uphill, 60 mph using electric only would not ordinarily be sustainable (unless there is a signficant tailwind ) for a long enough distance to be meaningful because the vehicle would just end up using most of its battery power fighting air resistance.
PiP getting 150 mpg while going 60 mph are using a combination of gas and electric power.
PiP going at 60 mph while using only EV mode would not be using any gasoline at all and their fuel efficiency would be expressed as miles/kilowatt hours. FWIW - a Leaf gets about 4 miles per Kilowatt Hour. On Cleanmpg.com - you get hypermiling bragging rights for anything above 5 miles per kilowatt hours.

 

Actually the higher speed is very useful if one has average 20 mile commute on surface streets and highways it can be completed with electric only while the lower electric limit would require gasoline on the highway.

 

Which are you commenting about, the hybrid or plug-in?

 

Putting cost aside, my understanding is the Fisker:

• 32 miles EV - 20.1 kWh

The Enginer kits:

• 10 miles EV - 2kWh
• 20 miles EV - 4kWh
• 40 miles EV - 8kWh

Since our local Volt advocate missed this thread:

• 25-50 miles EV - 16kWh

BTW, I'm pretty sure the Prius Plug-In has a maximum, all electric speed above 46 mph and it uses LiON batteries. Does anyone have the accurate specs?

If we can get them collected, I'll be happy to generate a table:

• EV miles
• Max EV speed
• MPG-e (EPA only)
• kWh
• MPG gas only (EPA combined only)
• model

I could be persuaded to add additional columns but explain why. I'm not interested in today's MSRP because it leads to bogus "pay back" nonsense and I'm not into that kind of silliness. If you can afford the car, then buy it with or without whatever other "pay back" options like leather seats, electric doors, big-nice person audio, e.t.c.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

Either or both. As long as the car can go 20 miles up to 65 mph on all electric, it would make the average commute without oil as long as the person could recharge at work.

 

YES! Thank you FORD! This will make competition fierce and lower the value of a VOLT (my next car)...LOL.

 

There is a similar table put together by evnow over at mynissanleaf that is kept up-to-date. Now that the first 2013 Volts are being delivered it should be updated to show 38 miles of EPA battery range and 98 MPGe city/highway combined efficiency on battery.

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

 

Thanks Jeff,

It is a nice table but a little ... busy. It seems to concentrate on dimensions and I'm more interested in EV/ICE performance and using seat-count as a simple metric or size. I'll probably gen-up the table but in the Prius Plug-In forum versus here. . . .

The stuff here is good but not really the best place for a table that might have longer legs.

Thanks anyway,
Bob Wilson

 

Following up on a posting on cleanmpg.com, I came upon reports from truecar.com/overstock.com which if correct suggest that the street price for the Chevy Volt has dropped from its MSRP 39145 , with a (truecar.com) good price 39148 and a (overstock.com) street price 37579. The base model for the Toyota Prius plug in was still commanding a premium over its MSRP of 32000, with a (truecar.com) goodprice and (overstock.com ) street price 32721. However, the very pricey Prius Plug-in Advanced is selling for less than its MRSP 40285 with a (overstock.com) street price 39945 and a (truecar.com) good price of 40000.

 

Very unlikely. I think more like a 10% boost from hybrid, so 45 (combined) mpg.

You have to remember that part of the hybrid advantage is already in a diesel car.

 

I like the idea of a 20 mile EV range, but I'll reserve judgement until I hear the price.

 

I only look at hatchbacks, but that may be an uncommon preference.

I agree that 'payback' arguments can be silly, but ignore the car price ? When was the last time you gave a car dealership a blank check to fill in the price ?

 

Huh ?

62 mph EV is "easy," but 65 mph EV is "strange?"

Staying below the EV maximum is important to overall drivetrain efficiency because ICE spin (unrelated to what fuel is used) costs about 2 kw. I could see myself setting cruise control on our highways at 64 mph. 61 mph would impede a lot of traffic, even in the right lane.