Need input for decision to purchase Prius C or something else..

Which ones would those be? By "40 mpg mark", are you talking EPA highway ratings? How much highway driving at highway speeds will you be doing? If it's a mix or mostly city, how do their combined or city EPA ratings compare to the Prius liftback or c? You can look them up at Compare Cars Side-by-Side.

These "consumer experts", have they ever owned a hybrid? Why are maintenance costs higher? Current Prius family members use a timing chain and have no belts, for instance. Brakes last forever too due to regenerative braking. Take a look at Lifespan/Operating costs - Prius Wiki and maintenance records of recent Toyota hybrids at Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity - Hybrid Electric Vehicles.

Failed traction (HV) battery, what to do? - Prius Wiki applies to the regular Prius. I'd imagine the HV pack on a Prius c would be cheaper since it has fewer cells.

 

I bought 2005 Prius ( used, out of warranty, 100k miles ) 3 years ago. I do oil changes myself, and did transmission fluid change once. Changed shocks but that was not really required, more like upgrade. So far at 135k miles my maintenance costs are much lower than any of my previous vehicles. I imagine with new car with warranty and free 2-year maintenance you would have even less.

Thanks,
- Alex

 

Your experts failed basic math. The only additional maintenance cost associated with hybrids might be traction battery replacement. The Prius C battery is warranted for 100m miles or 8 years. Prius taxis in California have been known to go 200m, 300m, even 500m miles on their battery. Replacement cost is a little over $2000.00.

14 mpg and 25m miles per year using $3.25/gallon = $5803.57 cost per year for gas
46 mpg and 25m miles per year using $3.25/gallon = $1766.30 cost per year for gas

Looks to me like you've covered your battery replacement cost pretty nicely in less than a year. And after you become Priusized, you'll probably get much better than than the EPA's 46 mpg with the C, even if all your driving is highway. If you do mostly stop and go, fairly short trips, with a mixture of highway, rural, and city, you'll do in the 50s easily.

 

Yaris drivers average about 35 MPG overall; Prius c, 52 MPG. @ 25k a year and $3.50 gas, monthly savings are around $68. You'll have to do the rest of the math figuring in your business situation - depreciating the vehicle, etc. If it is purely a business decision, go with the lowest cost. I do not believe that maintenance costs of the Pc will outstrip the Yaris.

 

I think rjdriver means 8 years/100K miles for the HV battery warranty.

 

I had a Honda fit, and it had the best cargo capacity of cars 4 times the size. I averaged about 34 mpg, and I would say this is the best small/big car for carrying a lot. That said I just hauled a bunch of stuff on Sunday and was impressed with the C, wouldn't hold as much as my previous fit, but it did well. Plus my first tank was 57.5 calculated mpg.

I persanally think people are too caught up in the whole mpg vs battery replacement topic. Ththere're other reasons, and cool technology inside the C even if it takes however many years to break even.

 

I always see/hear lots of banter back and forth about the extra expense associated with a hybrid, but very rarely see people actually crunching the numbers. I drive 36k miles a year and over 5 years I stand to save $8-10k (compared to my 29mpg Honda Fit). Based on that alone I'd say you will clearly save cash with the C. Maintenance costs are really moot since most other cars have similar expenses long term to the ~$2k battery replacement cost on a Prius and there's virtually no other maintenance to do.

 

FWIW, Consumer Reports has scored the Prius c too low to recommend (lots of discussion about that here on Priuschat). CR has never liked the Yaris and it scores even lower (and thus too low to recommend).

CR likes the regular Prius aka liftback better and recommends it. But, it's more money...

The Sonic hatchback scored very low in CR while the sedan was better but they couldn't recommend/not recommend since it's too new to have a reliability rating. Considering how HORRIBLY the Cruze did in CR's reliability ratings so far (and if you check out cruzetalk.com, you'll see people lots of people w/problems, many serious for a car that for some of them is <1 year old), there's no way I'd buy the brand new Sonic. GM can't consistently make cars with at least average reliability, even after the model's been built for many years.

Examples of Cruze problems I can remember of off the top of my head: besides the fire recall (fix involves cutting a hole in a one of the shields underneath the car to prevent fires partly due to botched oil changes), prematurely worn clutches, automatic transmissions that shift badly, coolant smells inside the car, thermostat problems, spiking speedometers (needle jumps around while standing still, sometimes to say 60+ mph), water leaks in the trunk (I think this has been fully resolved now), brakes suddenly stop working intermittently, etc.

You'd be far better off buying a vehicle w/a known good reliability rating.

Back to the Sonic, w/1.8L engine and 6-speed auto, they got 28 mpg overall (19 city/38 highway), which they called mediocre. With the 1.4L turbo and 6-speed manual, they got 30 mpg overall (21 city/39 highway). Compare that to The most fuel-efficient cars and Best & worst fuel economy.

BTW, you didn't answer my question:

 

The advertising of only the highest EPA test figure (highway for non-hybrids) really bugs me. See DetNews: 40 mpg claims grab headlines, miss mark | PriusChat. What's the combined EPA mileage rating of the '12 Sonic w/1.8L engine and 6AT? 28 mpg. How about the 1.4L turbo w/6AT? 31 mpg. How about the Prius c and Prius liftback? 50 mpg. See Compare Side-by-Side.

It's annoying that advertised figures only the highest figure like "40 mpg" (highway) ends up getting people to look at non-hybrids that significantly below that in combined driving. They then look at 50 mpg combined hybrids and think "hybrid's not worth it" because of they end up comparing a highway number to a combined number along w/various other reasons.

If it were up to me, if advertising only a single number, then the combined mileage should be the only one allowed. Thus, the Sonic would be advertised as a 28 or 31 mpg vehicle.

Not everyone lives and works on a highway and drives at highway speeds during a highway drive. Around here, try going anywhere during rush hour in the direction that the majority of traffic is flowing. It's a parking lot w/plenty of idling and stop and go. This is NOT anything like the EPA highway test cycle.

Since your driving is 50% highway, then I'd be looking at combined mileage. Forget the EPA highway rating.

I don't really agree about those repair costs. Engine won't be any more. I don't think the transmission is substantially more. The transaxle in the Prius is very simple w/a single planetary gearset, two motor generators, no internal clutches, no bands, no shift solenoids and no torque converter. You can look automatic transmissions at What is &quot;MG&quot;? | PriusChat vs. the PSD at Picasa Web Albums - cwerdna - Prius Connect.... If the inverter were to fail, that's expensive. The brake actuator's not cheap either.

 

If your hauling a package the size of a dishwasher box it will be tough getting it in if at all. If you hall several boxes that would be the equivelant size you can do that. If your packages have a cumulative weight of another person, say in the 200 hundred pound range you'll have to read up on a driver and passenger MPG post in the kind of traffic you will drive in. I have a 72 mile commute 98% on the highway. I like to drive 55. I get 62 MPG at 55 on that drive. If I jump into the HOV lane and wind up at 65-70 I get about 56MPG. There both pretty good. I am alone in the car and weigh 200. Drives great, comfortable for a small car. Like my old 1990 Honda civic I bought new in 90. Best MPG so far 67MPG on that 72 mile commute. Good luck

 

Well now.

If you can find a nice Gen 2, that would be an option for you. I have one and they have very high build quality and exceptional reliability. Even CR likes them. Not too many things break down on them afaik, and the HV battery pack can be rebuilt these days for not too much $. Chances are very high that it will not go bad on you.

I have a C too, and it is turning out to be a very economical car for me. Initial purchase price is higher than a non hybrid of course, but with the miles you drive, you will be ahead of the curve in no time. Being a Toyota I do not expect any reliability issues with it. But time will tell if the C will be a reliability legend like the Gen 2's.

I don't have a Gen 3 so I cannot comment on them. Others here will I am sure.

But any car can break down, even a Toyota! So while it is rare, it is prudent to budget monthly for car repairs. At the end of a few years you will have a bucket of money to fix anything that might break.

One of my most reliable cars I ever owned, and still do, has been my 2000 Chevrolet Cavalier. My daughter has it now, with 210k+ on the odometer. The only major problem I had with it was a dead fuel pump. It keeps chugging along! She moved to CA last year, loaded up the Cavalier and took it cross country (from NC!) with no problems. So US built cars are reliable to these days, don't worry about that.

However, I vote for you to go Hybrid!

 

IF those 20,000 miles are all at highway speeds you'd be best getting a VW TDI. On the highway those can break 50 mpg (my '00 Golf has done 56 on highway trips). But the TDIs can't hold a candle to the C in mixed-speed situations.

 

First, the Prius C has a small cargo bay and the seats don't lay completely flat. If your deliveries are usually smaller than a couple of record boxes the cargo bay won't be an issue. Otherwise, the Honda Fit and Toyota Matrix have better cargo bays with the seats down. Neither gets the mileage of a Prius, but both beat your Tundra.

Second, the Prius C is a sub-compact. Other drivers give your Tundra a wide berth lest you squish them. That wide berth will collapse if you downsize to a C. When I moved from a 1970 Cutlass to a 1990 Corolla, I was amazed how much ruder other drivers became. They weren't as scared of a Corolla as they were of a big, old Cutlass.


Tom

 

The GenII and Prius c can do the same.

 

I travel 30,000 miles a year in a 2009 Prius liftback (previous generation, gets about 5 MPG less than the Prius c) I am at 98,000 miles and have rotated tires, changed oil and filters, and changed the tranaxle fluid at 60,000 miles. (not a Toyota recommendation, but well thought of here on Prius chat) When I get to 120,000 miles I change the PVC valve and spark plugs. I am on the third set of tires. My previous car got 24 MPG the Prius gets 46 MPG fully loaded (close to 40 in winter, (we do not get much winter) 44 in summer, and 48 in spring and fall) Using $2.50 gas I was going to 'pay' for the hybrid in 5.5 years but we did not have $2.50 gas so I 'paid' for for it in 3.1 years.

Here is a link to who should not own a Prius (in my opinion)
considering a Prius | PriusChat

For real gas mileage comparisons, try Fuelly | Share and Compare Your MPG
The 2009 is 45.9 on fuelly, so my Prius is average for my year.
The Prius c is getting 52.1, while the Yaris is getting 35.7

Assuming $3.00 gas and 20,000 miles

20000/52.1 = 383 gallons = $1152 per year
20000/35.7 = 560 gallons = $1681 per year
So you save about $529 a year in gas alone. If you need a new HV Battery in 200,000 miles, you can pay for it out of the $5290 you will have saved in gas. (you will need less brake work, you may find insurance is cheaper)

If gas goes up, you would save more.
If you want to keep repair costs low, never routinely jumpstart your Prius, get a new 12 volt battery when the current one is dead. (plan every 4 years) Jumpstarting incorrectly could cost $4000.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/22437_1348787682118_4391291_n.jpg (Fully loaded)

 

Per Compare Side-by-Side (under Specs tab), Prius c is a compact, not a sub-compact.