Elon Musk on The Gavin Newsom Show

You should watch it again.
I do think he used the term mild hybrid in a way we aren't used to.
The way I understood him was that a 'mild hybrid' is a parallel hybrid where a full hybrid would be a plug in hybrid.
He also said that the Prius was "good" as the efficiency gain was good. But he didn't think the half EV-half ICE was good and companies should move to pure EV.

Personally I partially agree with him, he just isn't the best public speaker
However, I think both should be made and sold, as EVs alone don't work for everyone.

 

You might have the emphasis and motivation out of order. Musk believes that EV is the way to go and that's why he making them.

 

Not really. You said the reason Musk was not promoting hybrids was because he was "building and selling EV's", meaning his reasons were commercial, expedient and self serving. Musk feels that Toyota et al should have gone full EV from the get go and skipped the hybrid step. He wanted to prove his point and Tesla is doing that. His comments about hybrids were based not on expediency but on his vision. There is a big difference.

 

There is also the adherence to carb, that favors pure evs. Customers in California are a very important to tesla, and Musk has to play some politics with the regulators.

There is also the fisker/tesla controversy. The tesla S was originally drawn up as a phev. It makes a lot of sense as a phev, with a pack big enough for daily driving with an optional range extender. It would raise the regulatory burden. Fisker went this way, and Musk claims when Fisker worked for them he did a bad job on the S, and kept his best ideas for the karma. I'm sure Musk is going to stay anti-fisker karma.

I have to say I agree that the prius is a mild hybrid. It needs to make its own electricity from gas, making there only be one source of fuel. A full hybrid should be able to use to sources, electricity from a plug and gas from the fuel pump makes more sense for the literal definition. Unfortunately there are the even more minor hybrids that require the ice to turn to move, and since these were first, full hybrid does apply to the prius and mild to something like the gm e-assist.

 

I do not believe this is accurate. Yes, there is some bad blood between fisker and tesla. However, I thought that was work done on the styling only. The Model S was never drawn up as a hybrid. The whole concept behind Tesla was and is that electricity is the way to go

 

There is always mythology, but the sedan that became the S was originally designed as a phev not BEV.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/technology/15tesla.html

 

Thank you! I love it when I learn new stuff
However, from additional research, it appears Tesla at one time contemplated having a PHEV version of the White Star (Model S). So while the Model S was always a BEV, they did consider a PHEV version as well.
Tesla to make gas-electric car | Green Tech - CNET News

 

I should have said BEV with an optional range extender.

Remember Tesla inspired the volt, and gm had done a great deal of market research. IMHO the thing that changed between 2007 when they started thinking about this, and 2012 when the Tesla S came out, was improved batteries and the delay due to design changes.

It still makes better sense in my mind to have a range extender + 35kwh pack, than the 85kwh pack and charging infrastructure. It sounded like initially they were thinking 40kwh, 60kwh, Erev. GM had technical challenges with the volt though, and after being burned by fisker, musk might not have wanted to get consulting to get the range extending right. Not being in the room, we will never know. The fisker incident definitely cost tesla time to market, but who knows the pure BEV might be better for the company.

 

As long as Musk likes regular Prius ("mild" hybrid), which he does, I am willing to listen further.
He has intellectual problem with plug-ins PiP and Volt.
Food for thought but at least we can say Toyota is erring on the "milder" side of plug-in.

 

In Feb. 2009 a Tesla hybrid was at least a concept. By April/May 2009 the hybrid was gone. (My deposit check was written the beginning of May & I believe the prototype was unveiled late April.) So?

GM announced the Volt platform was going to be agnostic. It could be an EV, it could be a gas-electric hybrid, it could be CNG. How long did that last?

All Elon can say is, "Brand X is good but Tesla makes the best car on the planet." Never alienate the fans of the opposition. Do you really believe every winning team has the respect & admiration they say they have for the team they just thumped?

 

That was after the fisker controversy. I'm not trying to give you a new timeline, but the S had an engine option until the lawsuit and competition. Who knows, an optional engine may make its way back, but its dead right now, and I would not expect Musk to praise anything having to do with the karma or atlantic, given his history with henrik fisker.

I don't remember any such anouncement with gm. It was originally going to be flex fuel phev, but early in 2009 they decided they did not have the resources they wanted to develop the engine they wanted. CNG would require a tank taking up more space, and the volt was not designed for that.

With the karma being a phev above the White Star, and the volt bellow it, and distrust, Musk charted a path for pure EV. There is no one else with a sports sedan with electric range. I hope there are enough customers to make tesla very successful.

 

I have lived and breathed Toyota Hybrids for the past 6 years, and spent a lot of time training on how they work etc. And whislt many people get the terminology and explanations incorrect, I don;t feel that Elon was meaning Prius to be viewed in any bad light. After watching Revenge of the electric car it has just made me more and more happy that TMC have gone into a solid relationship even more so with Tesla and co now.

They way I look at it, Toyota has a direct line into future space flight !0+ billion dollars a year, I'm sure TMC can swing some towards SpaceX as well as things like the Rav4 EV etc.

Hybrid IS only a temporary thing. But temprary like current internet connections, and phones, and ICE vehicles. I'd hazard another good 15-30 years use out of Hybrids before pure EV and Hydrogen (in some areas at least) properly takes off.

It is all about the infrastructure. And the way Tesla has dealt with this is using a LOT of initial capital and personal cost by Elon to get some of the best battery technology into his vehicle to give people option of ranges etc. All it now asks is: How long are you going to drive for and what distance, and what time do you have to re-charge. I know after driving 400klms (250mi) I sure don;t feel like doing more driving