Next voltec, what do you think of the new rumors

Can you tell me what the offending piece of information is? Then at least I can comment on it. I would expect the casual prius chat reader that doesn't understand engineering to hear bigger more expensive engine, and start thinking worse fuel economy. I would expect those that do understand things about cars, that this is a incremental improvement. My goals here were to discuss the technology. What are your goals?

That is a much more pertinent question. The rumor seems to be about voltec 1.5, which means we can expect small not large changes. Since the aer for 2013 is improving to 98mpge and 38 miles with a 16.5kwh pack. I would expect electrical efficiency to stay about the say, but SOC may enlage with a more powerfull ICE, and pack size to be 16kwh or slightly larger to get around 40 miles aer. No need to change that. We have from low to high prius phv 11@95mpge, energi 20@100+ mpge, volt 38@98mpge, leaf 73@99mpge. I don't think there is much room for the volt to improve.

HV efficiency should improve, but this will be a marginal improvement. Without seeing the bsfc curves or the engine choice there is no way to know. The 2013 fussion energi gets 45mpg in CS with a 2L atkinson ice, I would expect the volt to be between this and its current 37mpg.

The cost to gm of the ice should go up. If it is a 2L DI turbo perhaps $1000/car, less if its a lesser engine. Weight of the engine may also go up, there should be offsetting cost and weight reductions in other parts. Not being in a gm planning meeting there is no way to know how their costs will change, I would expect a small drop in price along with an increase in performance, giving the buyer a better value proposition. The volt now is only about $2K more after tax credits than a prius phv, I don't think they will price it bellow the prius.

I don't expect a total redesigned volt gen 2 until 2016 or 2017, but if this is the gen 2 there could be more far reaching changes.

 

What are your goals and intention? It seems quite clear your goal is to have a double standard. I don't know why, but I can guess. Why don't you spell it out so that we know.

If you don't mean yourself, tell us who in the sentence. Otherwise it is quite meaningless unless you mean you have stated your goals, and if you have I doubt they were the truth. What are those goals and intentions. You are being quite obtuse.

 

John if you are going to bring up goals, the least you can tell us is "Who's goals" and "What those goals were and when they were made". By attempting to shut down discussion with anonymous criticism of someone's goals and no mention of what they are and how they make this discussion hype, I am at quite a loss. Perhaps someone can help you communicate your idea with more clarity. It certainly seems that your reason for posting is not constructive otherwise.

Edit, I'll start. GM's original goal was 40 miles aer, the 2010 missed that goal and hit 35 miles. Incremental improvement in 2013 raised it to 38, and I expect the volt 1.5 to reach the original goal of 40 miles. GM's original goal in 2008 for charge sustain was 50 mpg. During development they did not have resources to use the engine they wanted and dropped the goal to get something out by the end of 2010, the 2011 volt reached 37mpg and was shipped on time. This goal was dropped, but a more powerfull and efficient ice is the new goal for voltec 1.5.

Toyota's phv goal was 15 miles blended charge depletion range stated in 2012. The 2012 hit 11 miles. We have no new goals from toyota.

Note the lack of hype in the new rumors. That fuel cell, much longer range for the plug in prius thread you commented on was full of hype. Its that false hope you were talking about. It just won't happen, but there you were, oh well. We've been burned by toyota's fuel cell talk before.

 

Hey Hill,
The voltec 1.5 will probably do that on the NEDC cycle. Definite hype from the days before the epa changed its rules, based on counting gasoline as 0, as the europeans still do on one of their ratings. EPA has fixed their methods, to one that seems fairly good, electric mpge in CD, then gasoline in CS. Note on this thread we are talking about nothing like that, in fact the gains seem quite incremental and doable. Don't fall into john's trap. But let's definitely separate CD from CS in claims to avoid any of that past hype.

What do you think of the real topics of the thread? Slight increase in AER miles, as well as a more suitable range extending ice than the one that was rushed in, which should give a slight increase in CS fuel economy. They seem to be mainly trying to make it better instead of making it cheaper, which some like and some don't. It definitely seems to be a good thing to me that GM is investing engineering resources in the volt, and is slowly advancing its tech. 2012my fixed its AT-PZEV status, 2013my slightly increase electrical efficiency and range, 2014my or 2015my does a more major change to a more powerfull efficient motor. Nothing earthshattering, but investment is good. That rumor thread john commented on has the prius phv in gen IV guise adding "significantly longer range". 2015 should have many more and/or improved choices than today

 

I get a little of that even in my prius I just make sure I have music on. When my stereo was stollen it was quite irritating, but all is good now. IMHO they should offer both modes. The current volt engine though did not get efficient until 3500 rpm, a revised ice should be different.

It is mainly software, but having worked a great deal on software, I know its quite complicated for auto companies to get right. They will have had 3 years though, plenty of time. To get an optimal solution you would do different engine tuning. IMHO they should do it, the volt engineers want to do it, the only question is whether management gives them resources. Since it won't reflect on the EPA sticker, just in the real world, I just don't know.

Mountain mode should go away, but in the 2013 the volt gets hold mode, which means less games. The car won't try to charge up the battery more. This is quite different than a mode that simulates pulse/glide. But with hold owners may be even more likely to use the ice only on the highway, and most of the benefit of electronic pulse/glide is on roads bellow 50 mph which will boost city mileage.

 

The current software does a pulse and glide "light". The engineers were talking about something much more aggressive and higher in fuel savings, especially if the driver hypermiled. That would have effected tuning of the ice, and a higher rpm/power at its lowest level along with more time with the ice off. The new ice will likely be quiter at this efficient speed, the gen III prius greatly shifted down hp where it was most efficient. That should get rid of some of the NVH complaints, but really if you give the driver the option it seems like a win for gm. This could also be done in the prius phv.

Hold likely is better than MM.
BMW has been experimenting with hooking the gps up, and analysing it for how the batter and ice is used. That is probably the way of the future, but I doubt savings are much more significant than a hold mode.