how much total to install enginer kit???

If you wait a couple of months (or more!) and keep your fingers crossed(and toes!) - then there might be a 9kWh DIY / open-source version for $5K to $6K. But I wouldn't rely on it for a definite delivery on a definite date because I know the slacker doing the work (he'd be me).

I'm working on a 9kWh complete pack replacement. Switch out the factory battery control unit and switch in a new version. It should only be a matter of hours (not days) to do the conversion (Not taking into account the time to acquire the parts or assemble the battery pack). It'll be EV capable up to 70mph and have a 30 - 40 mile range. I paid $5K for my '05 Prius, add another $5K for this and I'll have a $10K Chevy Volt...

If it ever works (but I'm following on from a guy who got it to work so it's not a total shot in the dark).

 

I think you were being sarcastic but just incase how much will you charge for the install?

 

I won't be doing the install - I'm not making a business out of this. I'll be making the source code I write open source and I'll provide a possible bill-of-materials (shopping list) and an installation description.

That $5K or $6K is an estimate of what you'll spend acquiring all the necessary stuff - it goes to parts suppliers not to me. If you want it installed then someone who installs one of the other PHEV conversion kits should be able to do it. They should charge a reasonable hourly rate.

Remember - I'm in this for fun-not-profit. This solution will be suitable for knowledgeable folks to use - but it comes with absolutely no guarantee from me (anyone who tries this will be putting your faith in the fact that I'll be using what I've done myself - and I certainly wouldn't advise anyone does anything more than read the forum posts right now). I'm going to make it as easy as possible for someone to replicate what I've done. Hopefully they'll improve upon it and share their work (actually they'll have to if I use an appropriate license for the source code). Classic open source model.

If I were to go commercial I'd probably work with someone like Enginer - because they're only about 30 or 40 miles from where I live and it would allow them to offer a more capable product and leverage their existing marketing presence. But even if I do go that route then I'll still insist that the DIY'er can do it all themselves and have access to my software as open source. I still contend that there's room for both the open-source DIY'er and the professional installer to happily co-exist.

My personal goal is to see as many EV's on the road and in daily use as possible. That's a big reason why I started Current Motor Company. No more sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone else!

More specifically, with this personal project I'm hoping to see as many as possible of older Gen 2 Prius' converted into Chevy Volt comparable PHEVs. How cool would it be to give an aging Prius a new lease of life and for the result to be functionally competitive with a new $50K car? The environmental impact of an automobile includes the production of the vehicle, remember the old adage: re-use or re-purpose before you re-cycle.

Maybe that's a dream, not a goal. But, hey I bet Linus never dreamed Linux would turn out the way it did...

Another "preachy" post. Sorry - but it's my passion speaking.

Oh yeah - and the short answer was yes I was being sarcastic!

 

they are sold on ebay 900 and enginer website 900 all you can see is the image of ss box with cables

 

I'd very much like to see you work with Enginer once this is done. If the technical side of things is open sourced and understood (and supported by the community for upgrades etc) and Enginer do the design/fab work for securing the batteries, charger, connetors etc etc etc they could well have a product better/the same as PIS at a much lower price. A $6k upgrade on a gen2 prius is really pretty appealing.

 

This could work out well as long as it's seen as valid that Enginer provide the physical aspects but that the software & support are community based. One of the reasons the PIS kit price is higher is that they need to bake in money to cover support costs and for engineering a system that is "fool proof" (my favorite saying is "if you make something fool proof then nature just makes a better fool"). Hopefully, as a business, they have suitable liability insurance as well.

All these additional considerations are what drives the price up. Those extras may, or may not, provide value to the end customer. It's a bit like buying insurance. Do you not buy any and assume all the risk yourself (A) , do you buy a small amount for catastrophic coverage (B) or do you go with a comprehensive set of coverage (C)?

The open source approach I'm taking is model (A). The PIS approach is probably (or, likely, should be) option (C). There's certainly room for option (B) - and perhaps that's where Enginer could fit in. Also, someone could go with option (C) using my software but then they'd be assuming responsibility for supporting the software in some meaningful fashion. If it gets to this stage then I'll look at all these options in detail. Whatever I do there will always be option (A).

Edit: I thought of one more important aspect of this. I want to make the system "a la carte" to support the DIY'er. So, if someone wants a different pack format with other types of cells then they don't need to buy a battery pack and they can use just the bECU+. Or if they want to upgrade the inverter to get more power into MG2 they may need different control strategies.

In other words a kit is good for a direct replication. But separate parts are better for the DIY-er, experimenter, tinkerer who has an idea to want to change part X to make it more better...

PIS do a good job of this they seem happy to sell individual parts - I've never asked them about source code level access. Some other kit manufacturers don't want to entertain the idea of anything but a standardized kit by a "qualified" installer.

 

BTW - I think this is a key aspect. Keep the price low enough that it seems reasonable to put that much money into an older car. Personally, if you still have factory warranty on your car then I wouldn't futz with it (I don't hold with the idea of making changes and then changing back for service - that's just screwing the system). Or sacrifice the warranty.

On an older car it's difficult to justify a $10K+ expenditure.

I managed to buy a $5K Prius and buying my own stuff at cost I'm going to be in the $5K to $6K range for a 40Ah pack (with charger, BMS, controller, battery box etc.).

I think the commercialized kits out there are either too expensive or don't have the features I want. They're also not implemented like I want to implement mine.

Anyways - I have to get the dang thing working first!

 

When making comparison, please make sure do it apple to apple. If you compare the price for single cells with our pre-assembled pack with quick disconnect, BMS harness / Temperature probes, it is not really fair. As many knows, it takes 4-6 hours to assemble a pack and another few hours to test it.

Also the connections of single cell modules like Thundersky, GBS, could easily get loose under vibration in a vehicle. We learn that in a hard way and hope others don't need to learn it again.

 

Yep - I totally agree with that. You get what you pay for and there's a big difference between receiving a box full of cells and receiving a battery pack that you just plug in and it works.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this...

(1) Yes, I agree that vibration can loosen connections. But, then again, vibration can constantly flex and stress the cell tabs and cause failure there. It's easier to tighten a loose connection than to replace a failed tab...

(2) The GBS cells have four screws per terminal rather than one - this creates a much more secure connection. However, then we're back to the same sort of failure that I mention in (1) - the vibration can end up stressing the internals of the cell.

So, I think in both cases it's a combination of careful thought of both cell connection AND battery box design. Also, this is the classic problem of turning a one-off hobby project into a production ready, commercial design. I doubt any of us hobbyists are going to put our cars on a shaker rig... In other words we might have it working on day 1 - but what about on day 301? Will it still be reliable?

Which is why I'm sticking with open-sourcing

But I still haven't made my battery decision yet