2013 Volt: 98MPGe, 38miles EV range

The same could be said of Prius PHV in the city traffic. Range, speed, power, outside temp are all the criteria for the gas engine to fire up for both Volt and Prius PHV.

The difference between the two are the thresholds.

 

No, with the Volt there is no threshold for the gas engine to come on if the battery isn't depleted. The only thing I can think of, is that it won't let the engine temperature fall below a certain temperature. (I know it's below freezing.) Thanks to a few Volt owners, we have recently made the discovery that if we turn the fan on low, but put it on comfort and run the heat, it will exchange fluid with the engine and successfully keep it warm preventing the "running engine due to temperature" that we sometimes see when it's like 25 degrees or less outside.

 

True, if you are only looking at vehicle efficiency. If you take account of the fuel production, that changes the picture dramatically.

EPA's beyond tailpipe emission calculator shows, 87 g/mi from tailpipe and 233 g/mi upstream CO2e emission (total of 320 g/mi) for Volt using grid electricity in Effingham, IL.

In comparison, a regular (no-plug) Prius is rated 222 g/mi (178 g/mi tailpipe and 44 g/mi upstream).

P.S: Are you buying green power certified electricity?

 

Volt's EV has full power under 35 mph. Not so above 35 mph. It would if it runs the gas engine. The same can be said of Prius PHV at lower speed. I think going down this road will just get silly.

 

I'm not sure I get what you mean. In EV mode 100% power is supplied by the battery without the ICE running upto 100 mph. Do you mean because the system has more hp in blended mode that it is somehow unable to operate electrically above 35 mph? I guess you're comparing Volt power in CD and CS? The implication that the Volt is somehow limited in EV is misleading, the CD power is impressive.

 

No, I don't think it is an extremist view. Don't you hate it when you hit a bit pothole? If so, do you avoid them when you see them in time? Or do you stop driving because potholes exist?

I bought a car with an ICE because there are times where we need to drive distances beyond the range limitation of our EV.

Less so, but I would still avoid it if possible as there are a number of reasons we prefer not to use gasoline AND it is noisy While being green is an excellent reason for an EV or PHEV if it is cleaner for your situation, there are many other concerns in which EV driving comes out, subjectively, as better.

 

Yup, Volt's tailpipe emission was improved in the eAT-PZEV model (where available).



This is how Volt stacks up with Prius PHV and Fisker Karma.

Voltstats represents 10% of the data. This ticker on GM site shows ~77 million miles driven and ~48 million miles with electricity. That leaves 29 million miles with gasoline.

 

Self admittedly I am burning coal, and utilizing the "net pricing." Doing so has brought my bills down considerably and makes it really cheap to charge my car. I charge my car primarily off of "off-peak" hours, which I think is not bad. I actually spoke to the people at the local coal plant and they said this helps them greatly, as it's hard to manage at night, under such low loads, and helps them to not burn so inefficiently. Also, I wonder if they just look at Effingham's energy source, see it's coal and then assign a pre-set amount of pollution. I went to the power company recently. I used to see large plumes of pollution coming from the stacks. They actually just recently finished installing some amazing scrubbers at my local plant. I can barely see anything coming out of the stack now. A MAJOR difference.

However, it's all about to be ok because I am installing solar on my house! It is especially beneficial to me, because even if I don't zero out or have a negative kw usage, I can still make $. They said they will pay me based upon what the current hourly rate is. (MUCH higher during the day when the sun is shining, and dirt cheap at night.) I have everything in my house on timers, all of my major systems. This house is like a battery that charges up cheaply and runs during the day. Adding solar is only going to make this set up ridiculously ludicrous!

Anyway, does the beyond tailpipe emission count the beyond tailpipe emissions that happen with gas? It was my understanding that under most circumstances utilized in the U.S. refining the oil uses as much electricity as just putting the electricity directly into a battery! That was the goal of my above link. I really hope it works. If not, and you guys don't mind a MASSIVE post, I can just post it in text form here.

 

Ok... so it is full power if you let go the pedal after 35 mph?

I don't fit the profile that would buy a Volt. I sure fit the profile of Prius PHV and C-Max Energi. Those two are my ideal choice to replace my 06 Prius when it is time.

 

And I don't blame you one bit! lol

 

Also, I suck at math but that's over half of all Volt miles driven with electricity. I'd say 60% to be sure that we are over the half way mark. So if you take the Volt and average in the EV miles to the emissions equation, and factor 77 million miles driven with the PiP (also removing it's EV miles), does the emissions still stay the same? Because I'm sure that graph is representing the Volt WHEN the ICE is on. So, I think that would sway the numbers quite a bit. (Assuming that power plant generation factors aren't included for either vehicle.)

 

Brad, I can see it. I am sorry he passed away. I am more sorry that he passed away believing that. He said 12% of the energy is lost from gasoline refinement. If everything is included the figure is 15%.

Anyway per US EIA, about 67% of the energy is lost generating electricity in the US. This means, it would take about 101 kWh of coal energy to generate 33.7 kWh.

 

I know there is a significant amount of loss. I am however pretty sure it's STILL more efficient. Considering that 67% of energy loss also happens to the electricity on it's way to the refining plant. I seriously think a lot more electricity goes into getting gasoline to the car than most people realize. Probably the same or less as just putting it into a battery. However, it's all a non issue if we switch to greener energy and micro-grid type stuff. Basically the power won't have to travel far from my roof.

All environmental concerns aside, I think it's more efficient to get energy from our own country than the middle east, but that cracks open a whole new argument. I visit WV a lot, and see their side. I usually disregard it but once again I have toured and explored the area and I can tell you that coal can be done right. Is it? That's a totally different story. I'm not pro-coal as our energy source. I would never want to get rid of it completely but instead keep it as an aid, and a failsafe. At this point in time at least it is domestic and doesn't carry the prices of war, as well as making us all vulnerable and out of control of our energy. These are all things I considered. I had hybrids all my life and decided I wanted a hybrid that could accept multiple fuel sources as well as be efficient. It was a big selling point for me.

 

In EV mode, 100% power is not available. See the MT graph I posted. Blended mode (CS) gets more power to the wheels. Not running the gas engine and not linking mechanically to the wheels take out the power that ICE can generate.

 

I am glad you joined the discussion. I wish you did years ago.

 

No matter how you put it, potholes are not good for the environment. LOL.

You don't have to stop driving. A full BEV is an alternative. You can use as much electricity as you'd like. There is no gas engine or gas tank to lug around.

 

Hey Brad. Hope you don't mind if I jump in here as I have been researching that a bit not too long ago.
They do! I was very happy to see that they considered upstream of both types of fuel.
However, the data they used is the annual data from 2007. Too out of date to be very useful beyond giving a good idea of the issues going into the analysis (which in and of itself is valuable).

The current estimate for coal use for 2012 is down to 37% nationwide. I have not seen any studies yet on the increased 'dirtyness' of tar sands oil or how much of our oil is comming from those sources. However, I expect that oil refining will get more energy intensive and thus dirtier as time goes by.

Hopefully renewables will continue to grow for electricity production. Although much of the decrease in coal as a percentage has not been renewables but the increase in NG plants.

And, congratulations on the solar panel decision, I know I have been thrilled with ours

 

True, but some can't have 2 cars! And if they need to travel further.. oh heck. I'm just going to bounce back and say we need ER trailers. lol

Also that chart shows "power to the wheels." I think they measure drivetrain power differently or something. The full advertised HP rating for the Chevy Volt is available in EV mode. I guess it can do better if the ICE is on, but that doesn't mean it doesn't achieve it's full capacities in EV mode. What I could see you argue though, is that it's obviously not 100% of the vehicles capability.

 

Oh, I hate to post again and again. I had to add though, part of why I like the Volt so much is that it is heavier. It feels beefy. I think if it didn't have the weight I wouldn't enjoy it as much, or at least not for the same reasons. I had a leaf for a few days and loved it. I could easily own one of those. It's one of those "like it equally but for different reasons from different standpoints" kind of things. It was even more quiet, it was fun and quirky, open feeling. However, it did feel light, though very strong footed. The Volt feels like a CTS or something. It was perfect for me as I would occasionally bounce back and forth between Prius and something heavy/sporty/european. lol I think it all boils down to the individual and what they prefer. That's why these options are great, and the future only looks to get better!

 

Yes.

The data is from eGRID which takes account of other form of emission and converts them to CO2 equivalent. Everything (well to wheel) was taken account so different fuels can be compared.