How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

Nice to see GM is not sitting on the all Volt improvements until the 1.5refresh. The 2013 Volt was just announced to be more efficient (better MPGe than PiP . See this thread

2013 Volt: 98MPGe, 38miles EV range | PriusChat

 

GM Boosts 2013 Volt Mileage Rating, Beating Toyota Prius


GM Boosts Volt Mileage Rating, Beating Prius - Businessweek

General Motors Co. (GM) (GM)’s changes to the battery of the Chevrolet Volt w

 

2013 is a better Volt. That doesn't make it better than Prius PHV from the carbon footprint well-to-wheel analysis. 2013 Volt still has many shortcomings such as 37 MPG gas engine, 4 seater compact interior, etc.

 

You forgot that it is way too cool for the average person to feel at ease in.

 

Show-boaters may feel cool but I doubt many average person will fit comfortable in the back seats.

 

It seems carbon footprint is not high on the list of those buying plug-ins. Low use of gasoline and desire for the technology seem high on the list.

If carbon footprint is the high priority, then many choose to power the electrons with solar or wind. This lowers the carbon footprint of their house as well. By all means if that is the important consideration the 2013 reduces it by the slightest bit, but 93mpge from the 2011, 95mpge from the prius phv, 98 mpge from the 2013 volt all will use about the same in CD. The change in 2013 is those extra 3 miles aer may change the ratio of electricity to gas.

Desiring a car from Toyota over gm, desiring 5 seats instead of 4, large numbers of long trips at 50mpg CS are all points in the prius phv favor.
More electric miles, better acceleration and handling, are points in volts favor. The 2013 changes don't change these much, but should give one more confidence in the volt's battery.
Styling, reliability, fit, etc seem to be up to the prospective buyer, and many have different opinions on what is better.

Maybe on Prius chat, but not in the real world.

 

To me, the definition of a green car is the one with the least impact on the environment -- meaning the least carbon footprint.

I think the national pride and energy security were rolled into the hybrid movement but they did not define a green car.

The plugin generation seems to have lost the focus after the initial move (forward in term of greenness) with the hybrids. To me, carbon footprint comes first. Energy security comes second, then national pride. The lure of electricity takes an easy step into energy security but not lowering carbon footprint. Part of the reason was, the information wasn't available back in 2009 or 2010 when Volt and Leaf came out. Now, EPA site has information and calculators available. Hopefully that would lead the focus back into the green cars.

One of the greats misconception is that, the higher MPGe number, the greener the car is. To get bigger MPGe, you need bigger battery, etc... That is one of the misconception I am combating.

 

While funny, I don't think its true, nor good to suggest that. The Volt may be way too cool for a few prius drivers , but the average person probably likes the idea of a cool car. Unfortunately, it may be too hot, politically, for some to even consider. And until they look into it, they won't know how cool or how efficient it is.

 

The missing piece in so many threads is exposed with your post. A great many Prius Drivers not only got a new cars, but also unexpectedly got a new education on how much gas was being wasted on previous technology cars. (There is a reason that only Highway MPG is touted in car commercials.) That education might end up saving more gas than the car ever could.

Now with the Volt (and to a lesser degree with the PiP) a great many new buyers will unexpectedly start thinking about buying or leasing their own fuel station. You need to be on a commercial about how you bought a new lifestyle instead of just a new car.

 

Its not a misconceptions, except on your part, the higher the MPGe.. the greater potential for reducing carbon, if you charge with renewables and/or if you live in the greener states. By the study from the union of concerned scientsts

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So for nearly have the US it is true, today. For the rest, if you take average expected GHG over the projected life of the car, the numbers are even better because the grid is getting cleaner, and its getting cleaner pretty quickly. Just last year coal droped 19% in its share of power generation(see this threadhttp://priuschat.com/threads/coal-share-of-powergen-down-to-36-share.109503/). More importantly, the EIA projections expect US CO2 for eletricty to drop by 15% by 2020, (midlife of a car produced today) and 35% by 2025

So if you are considereing what is greener, you need to factor it over the lifetime, not just using 2007 data...


Curious, if you care about carbon footprint, are you running solar? are you paying for green energy?
What is your home electricity/heating usage? How conservative is your overall power/gas usage?
People pushed for us Volt owners to tag our usage with all the data. Few Prius users say how many gallons per year they use, or kWh they use overall.

 

These are both green cars. Their impact on improving emissions depends more on what they replace than which is better.

 

I take it that you don't like carbon based on the above?

DBCassidy

 

I am sorry it takes $40k car to become aware of electricity usage. My purchase of $19 Kill-a-watt did it for me.

 

I did it for free by looking at my monthly bill.

 

While agree a 40K car is a bit much to make one aware, I doubt you purchased a kill-a-watt and then became aware, more likely you became aware and bought a kill-a-watt to do something about it.

But I will agree with part of what FL_Prius_Driver said.. the volt can change people to make them even more conscious about their efficiency. I'm a Type A (A+) person and was almost always in the left lane as fast as traffic/conditions would allow. While I had already done lots of conservative changes to my house, I was not really doing them in my car (except having bought a car that was efficient for its day). I bought the Volt in part to be more efficient. The Volt's feedback and ability to get/compute efficiency data has helped transform me into a (generally) right-lane at the limit driver, refocusing my A tendencies into how I can do better not just getting to work. There are even days when I take the 45mph backway to work rather than the 75/65mph highway..

There are multiple of posts on gm-volt about the volt changing people to be more efficient. Investing 33K into a car and having it help teach you to slow down at time is still a good thing. Some of us can be slow learners.

 

I'm not. I'm surrounded by folks who have bought $50k vehicles just for the express purpose of flouting their obtuseness to energy awareness. Do we really want to overlook this bigger issue and make snide remarks about someone whose goal is the same as yours, but is taking a different path?

 

I posted my electricity usage and cost before. With this new forum, I can't find my attachments. Perhaps you can search through my posts.

My average daily electricity usage per ConEd is about 4kWh from Oct to May. June is 8 kWh average. July is 16 kWh. Aug is about 10 kWh. The spike is due to A/C usage.

I don't pay extra for the Green Power electricity. NY electricity is pretty clean already. My bill includes 0.41 cents/kWh for "System Benefits Charge/Renewable Portfolio Standard charges fund NY state renewable energy, environmental and other related public policy programs".

With everything (delivery charge and taxes) included, I pay about 37 cents per kWh.

 

Egads! That is 4 times what I pay (delivery charge and taxes) included. My last 13 months is ~$0.08548/kWh. I understand your anti-electric car perspective better.

 

GM likes to point out that the most traded in vehicle for Volt is Prius. In term of carbon footprint that includes tailpipe emission and beyond, Volt would emit more CO2e per mile, on average, per EPA.

46 MPG GenII Prius has carbon footprint of 241 grams/mile.
50 MPG GenIII Prius has carbon footprint of 222 grams/mile.
Volt using average US grid electricity (2007 data) has carbon footprint of 260 grams/mile.

It looks to me that many are downgrading in term of emission and vehicle size.

I am actually pro-electrification. If I drive a Volt instead of Prius, my carbon footprint would be lower using average NY electricity. Prius PHV would lower it even further and for my commute pattern, Prius PHV fits me better.

Driving plugins won't save me money (due to the rate I pay) but it will be better for the environment. When I am in the market for a new car, Prius PHV will be on top of the list. Well, that also depends how Ford prices C-Max Energi. I also have an eye on it.

 

Prius most traded-in car for Volt and Leaf, because of HOV stickers?

We should also add that may envioronmentalists care about sustainability, and using electricity instead of gasoline is a great way to use less of the mot scarce resource.

This is a bogus stat. I doubt anyone will buy a volt over a prius simply because of less ghg, but lets look where they are buying them. California is number 1 where the volt produces less. Texas is number 2 where most that are environmental already have switched to wind or will in the near future. Even in your city the volt emits lower ghg emissions. The US grid is much cleaner than 2007 today and steadily improving.

It looks to me that as a group they are producing less ghg, unhealthy tail pipe pollutions, and using a great deal less scarce oil. One trade off they have made is a smaller car. Many are happy in a smaller car, I would not call a camry to volt a down grade.