Is there interest in a group buy of A123 20ah prismatic pouch cells?

A123 20ah prismatic pouch cells are showing up on the open market for individuals to purchase. They are great performing cells and there are already members here on PriusChat using them in PHEV applications.

In order to get as many of these cells into PriusChat members hands, I would be willing to coordinate a large group purchase of A123 20ah prismatic pouch cells.

The goal is to get enough people to commit for 500 cells which translates to a cost of $26.50 per cell (plus postage with tracking from Madison, WI to you).

The bulk shipment of cells will be delivered to my Wisconsin shop, and I will repack/re-ship from there.
The re-shipping cost will be at the buyer's expense.
To estimate your individual shipping cost, use 500g per cell for weight and Wisconsin zip code 53704

This is the cash/check price.
If a group buyer uses a third-party paysource I'd have to ask that you cover the additional fees associated with it.

Payment:
Deposit of $24 per cell when you place your order.
Remainder due when the cells arrive and I confirm your shipping cost.
Cells shipped once I receive full payment.
Deposits are not refundable once the cell order is placed

I'll outline some more details below. If there is enough interest, then we will go forward with the group purchase.

I'll put answers to some common questions in the next post.

Feel free to call me if you have any more questions.
608-729-4082

 

Common questions:
Is there a minimum number to buy?
Not really, but we are looking to get at least 500 cells ordered.

How about some cell specifications?
A pdf with dimensions is attached to this post
An here is a link to the spec sheet in my google docs
I expect ~18-19ah capacity based on other shipments people have received.

Are these new cells?
Yes, these are new cells.

Are these cells with full tabs?
Yes, these pouch cells have the full tabs.

Will you be checking the cells for obvious damage before sending them to me?
Yes, when they arrive I will make sure there isn't anything obvious wrong like a torn or damaged cell.

Will you check voltages to rule out any dead cells?
Yes, I will check voltages before sending them to you.

Will you fully stress test each cell and match capacity of all of my cells?
No. Unfortunately that would require more equipment and time than I have. Even if I could do it, it would increase the cost to the end buyer significantly. Assuming it takes at least 1 hour to check one cell, even at minimum wage that increase the cost $7.25 per cell.

After buyers receive the cells can they share the results of their own testing on Priuschat?
Yes, I hope so! I encourage you to keep a record and then share the findings of any tests you do. This way you will have a baseline to check against in the future. We can start a separate thread on this when the time comes.

Can I pick the cells up at your shop in Madison?
Yes. You'll need to pay the balance in person or via mail within 7 days of me receiving the initial shipment. Please plan on picking them up in a reasonable time. I can't store them for you indefinitely.

It may be a little while until I use the cells, so what about self discharge rates on these cells?
This shouldn't be an issue. All chemical batteries have a shelf life. I've had people say they left them unused for over six months and still had useful capacity. The self discharge rate is perhaps 2-3% a month? We have no idea how old these are or how long they will last long term. It's not unreasonable to expect >5 years or 100,000 miles out of them.
Capacity perhaps down by 30-50% after 5 years daily use to 60% SOC.

What kind of warranty do these cells have? What recourse do we have if they don't ship or if we get junk?
Although the vendor says they will swap bad cells (compensate on future orders) I expect shipping costs etc which will probably have to be borne by the buyer both ways will make that impracticable. To hedge on this, I usually recommend buying a few extras as spares. Easier to buy a couple extra now, than to pay for shipping on one or two later. As mentioned above I will be doing visual inspection and DOA voltage test before sending them on to you. Once you receive you cells, please post detailed testing results.

Many people have worked with this vendor before and had good feedback that's why I chose them. Future business from us depends on them keeping a good reputation in the community. That said, if you can't afford to lose the money think very carefully about participating. We are not dealing with someone in the US who we can pay a call on. It's a calculated risk. If you think the reward of reasonably priced A123 cells is worth the risk, "welcome on board".

Do you know of any youtube videos showing people testing similar A123 cells?
Sure, here are a few...
A123 20Ah grey market test at 100A - YouTube
A123 20ah pouch cell capacity tester - YouTube
LiFePO4 A123 Systems 20Ah Battery Charge and Discharge Test part 1 - YouTube

 

$21 per cell would be great. But I've looked around and there isn't anyone selling them for that low of a price.

 

I have not done business with him/her before
First off, is he a reputable vendor? Can you vouch for him/her?

The link you provided is 72 cells for $2,048.
That's $28.44 per cell.

I'll send a message, but am leery of trying a new vendor for this big of a dollar amount.

 

I put in a request to the vendor.
At the 72 piece price the group buy is pretty close to the same. Probably slightly less. I don't think it'd be an additional $2 per cell to ship from here. (For estimating shipping use 500g per cell for weight and Wisconsin zip code 53704)

Also, I checked with Paypal, and for this large of an international buy through them, paypal would need to split it into two separate orders. This would mean possible additional charge to the seller. Hopefully they would eat that cost.

FWD or lopezjm2001,
Did you have any customs issues or additional fees when you bought your tabless cells through this vendor?

 

And while we wait for a reply, is there anyone else generally interested in a group purchase of cells?

 

There are quite a few ways to connect them up. Everyone has their opinion on the best way to do it. Spot welding, soldering, crimping, etc. Once we do the buy we probably want to start another thread about that as well.

edit: For example, here is a link to how lopezjm2001 did his. Planing CanView and BMS+ conversion with lithium | Page 4 | PriusChat The plastic containers are an interesting touch.

 

I have been an Enginer installer for years now, so getting an Enginer BMS is pretty straightforward. What kind of cabling are you thinking of?