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Control logic?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by glpss, May 26, 2012.

  1. glpss

    glpss Junior Member

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    1. The engine needs to spin at or above 42 MPH. Does the system determine when the engine needs to spin by the road speed, or perhaps according to MG1 RPM?

    2. Does the control unit primarily determine how much gas to give the engine and then have MG1 seek the highest torque it can get without causing the engine to slow down? Or does the control unit tell MG1 how hard to work and then the engine responds by demanding enough gas? Or perhaps a little of both?

    Any answers would be appreciated.
     
  2. Frayadjacent

    Frayadjacent Resident Conservative

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    Well, the road speed and MG1 speed with the ICE at 0RPM will remain at a fixed ratio.

    Somewhere around 41-42MPH, MG1 hits 6000RPM, which is where the system will force the ICE to turn on.

    For #2, I could only reply "yes", as it does various things under various conditions.
     
  3. glpss

    glpss Junior Member

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    The only reason the answer to No. 1 matters to me is that I am considering testing my ideas by making a conversion. I'm hoping that there is a sensor in MG1 that tells the control unit that it is going too fast so it starts up the engine. If so, the changes that I would make would automatically stop the engine from starting only because of road speed.

    The answers to No. 2 might effect whether the system would work well without any changes in the controls. I would like to find out that the engine and MG1 would behave well after modification without modification to the control unit.

    If I take on this conversion effort I would likely acquire an MG1 assembly to convert and have ready to swap and try. If it doesn't work I can swap back.

    There are other questions on my mind that would help me know what I am getting into. They probably belong in another thread.
     
  4. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Toyota is protecting MG1 from overspeed and mechanical damage. I am not sure exactly what your modification would be but I would do some more research on the why's and how's before taking a chance of damaging an expensive HSD.

    There are speed sensors on both MG1 and MG2 so the control unit knows how fast the motors/generators are turning all of the time. The motor speed triggers the point of when to spin the ICE to protect MG1.

    There are several threads on here with really good explanations as to how the HSD system works.
     
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  5. glpss

    glpss Junior Member

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    I have a good understanding of the workings of the planetary gear set. As good as it works in doing its job, there are some limitations because of it; especially that the engine has to spin, whether used or not, in order to protect MG1 from overspeed. With my modification, if I can accomplish it, MG1 won't overspin at any road speed without the engine spinning. I expect that if that becomes possible, EV mode might be used more often, even if it would mean using a larger high voltage battery.

    I expect that you would say that it isn't possible to make it so MG1 won't overspeed at higher road speeds. When the time is right I may explain my ideas more. I know it will cost me to acquire an MG1 to work on, and that there is the risk that things won't work as expected. But I have thought on my ideas for long enough, and trying an alteration for my car is the cheapest and easiest way I can think of to test the ideas. The next question I would have is whether the planetary set and silent chain are part of the MG2 assembly, or whether they are just assembled as MG1 and MG2 assemblies are put together.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  6. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    There are many good threads on here that show both the Gen II and Gen III HSD units. There is also a YouTube video of the Gen II HSD parts being assembled and an explanation of how everything works. Search on here for HSD and you should be able to find everything that you need to know about the HSD and the answers to your question.

    Good luck.
     
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  7. Frayadjacent

    Frayadjacent Resident Conservative

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    Here's my logic behind my answer to #1.

    With the engine stopped, the ratio of the speed of MG1 and MG2 is fixed. With MG2 being connected directly to the output, it is directly proportional to the speed. So the speed of the car is going to be directly proportional to the speed of MG1.

    The speed of MG1 doesn't vary in relationship to the output to the wheels until the ICE starts running. Then the speed of the ICE and speed of MG2 can cause the speed of MG1 to vary quite a bit.

    So my assertion is that with the ICE stopped, it doesn't matter if you tie the ICE start to vehicle speed, or MG1 speed - If 41MPH is where MG1 hits 6000RPM, then MG1 at 6000RPM is necessarily 41MPH.
     
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  8. glpss

    glpss Junior Member

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    I just watched the YouTube video on the complete tear down. It was quite helpful. It answered the questions I asked and also others that I didn't ask yet. Thanks much.
     
  9. glpss

    glpss Junior Member

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    Yes, I understand that is the way it is. After watching the video on the complete tear down my questions are answered. It may be some time before I get the unit to experiment with and test it, but I'll post my results some day. Thanks much.