Have Batteries, Want PHEV, Need Advice

I have not seen Peef?? is he PC member?

 

Otherwise
You gotta have these
control boards
BMS
Contactors
Wire Harness
Charger

I know this bad news other wise you just have battery's(cells)
If you can I would contact a local EV chapter and seek out some professional advice...

 

4kWh 76 cells 3.2v

Do you have headway 16Ah cells ?

(P.S. I still don't understand why PIS call this a 4kW kit (same for the 6kW, 10kW..).
This is a 4kWh kit or 22kW.)

 

I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm thinking you might be better off selling the batteries on ebay. But I think Enginer sells a kit without the batteries. Maybe you could contact them?

 

The problem is that these cells accept only a max charge current of 80A.
Your Prius can send 100A.

So you cannot replace the nimh cells with your headway. Peef used A123 cells and have something like 6kWh.

You have several solutions:
1) add cells up to 144 headway cells or
2) use a solution that limit the max regen amperage.
Enginer for exemple, because this kit don't have regen on lithium cells.

I don't think that bms2 can be set to 80A max regen.

 

I am sure that I have noticed my BMSplus spoof the CCL (current charge limit). I have noticed at times that the original CCL and the spoofed CCL to be different values. I cannot see any reason why Norm could not set the spoofed CCL to have a maximum value of 80 amps. I would email Norm and ask him. Buying another 72 cells is not a good solution financially.

You would need to install a 100A HRC fuse/fuse holder, two 200A contactors - one on the positive and negative side, 9 or 10 x CellLogs and 9 or 10 x 9pin plug harness for the CellLogs, 1 x BMSplus or BMS2, a hall current sensor bypass, 10mm2 cable, A lot of info can be found on http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...0-planing-canview-bms-conversion-lithium.html

If the above is too overwhelming for you then you may want to consider selling the battery pack on Ebay and maybe just settle for a simple 4kwh Enginer Kit. After I first bought my first Enginer Kit on Ebay from Jack he offered me a full refund which is a better responce than threatening legal action. I have yet to hear of a after factory PHEV kit being sold without having some sort of problem which is what you get when you read these forums. Nobody ever makes a forum post to say that they have installed a PHEV kit and evertything was perfect.

 

One option is to see if you can complete the transaction with PIS. You want a good kit and to be able to share your positive experience about it with the world. PIS wants to sell kits and have users share positive experiences. I doubt that you will get sued, because that would be your opportunity to counter-sue and get all of your money back, and you are far more likely to be the winner.

You need BMS2 if you decide to do a complete DIY. You have to have a way to spoof things like SoC and/or the current sensor, depending on how you do it. But it will take you much longer. The nimh battery is managed in 14 groups of 12 1.2V cells. That, unfortunately, is exactly 14 groups of 4.5 of your Headway cells. Plus, that would only use 63 of your cells anyway. I think the easiest solution is the contactor-based one where you leave the traction battery in place.

 

Thanks
Navy
Have you decide what you will now do?

 

PIS is the only kit which can enable ICE up to 70MPH in EV mode. I figure that a BMSplus device can be used by physically connecting it between the Hybrid ECU and the ECM on the Canbus and program it to intercept the Ox3C8 frame. As described by pEEF this frame which is sent by the Hybrid ECU to the ECM can be modified to disable Or enable the ICE. The only problem is learning which programs to use to program the BMSplus processors, this is where the challenge lays. I doubt that a device can do this by resending the modified frame after the original frame is sent. The frame has to be intercepted, changed and sent. This is what the BMSplus is programmed to do with the Modified SoC, CCL and DCL frames going from the battery ECU to the Hybrid ECU.

It is very possible that the ECM assembly (which allows ICE in EV mode up to 70MPH) supplied by PIS is a device similar to a BMSplus.

 

Yes indeed, but the BMS+ manufacturer never wanted to have the liability of such a "modification implementation".
I do not blame him. To much wide open information with out Copyrights.

 

Yes, liability is exactly it. Worst case is that if it was badly installed or became faulty it would cause the ICE to be shutdown and go electric drive only. Including DTCs.

 

Yes, liability is exactly it. Worst case is that if it was badly installed or became faulty it would cause the ICE to be shutdown and go electric drive only. Including DTCs. Extending the existing EV mode speed limit from 25MPH to 70MPH along as a PHEV kit can sustain the energy requirement should not be too hard to achieve.

 

i bought a 2004 prius here in Australia from a company that imported a 4kw plug-in system (lead acid batteries) from PIS in the states but never installed it. They included the kit in the sale. I had it installed an eventually it was working fine. After 2 months the charger blew up. I looked for a while but had trouble replacing the charger and am only now getting around to getting it working again. Anyway, I was thinking about buying the batteries you have and a compatible charger to get it going again. I would be interested in buying the batteries if the price was right and they could be sent cost effectively (?) to Adelaide Australia.

Cheers

 

Hi Joel,

Good to see an Aussie with a PIS kit. You can try EV Assemble, LiFePO4, Electric Bike Conversion Kit, EV Charger, BMS, EV Components, EV Parts, All for EV! to source headway Lifepo4 cells and a Elcon charger for Lifepo4 cells. But it would be best if you sent an email to Robb of PIS asking for his advice. You would have to update the BMS to protect the lifepo4 cells from overcharging or over discharging since the old cells would have been 12v. Sounds like you have an old PIS kit. Probably a good idea to update the electronics.

You could get 76 x distributed miniBMS modules (HVC:3.8v) and one head-end control board from www.cleanpowerauto.com to protect the headway cells. You could get headway 76 x cells 40152S 15ah -screw tab or 76 x two 10AH cells Headway 38120S -screw tab in parallel. You could get a 240Vdc Elcon charger TCCH-240-05 to charge your 76 headway cells. You could source a PVC battery pack box to house your headway cells from Robb or build one yourself. You can buy the cable, anderson plugs and smaller parts locally from Jaycar.

EDITED - 78 cells changed to 76

 

What you said above is fine, except the PIS 4kwh kit uses 76 cells, not 78. Of course, if you want 2 spare cells, then 78 is good. The cells I received through Robb are the 40512S cells.

[edit]You might also have problems mounting the miniBMS boards on the Headway cells. They appear to be designed for the 'brick' shaped Thundersky, etc. type of cell rather than the Headway cylinder cells. The centralized board they offer might work though...4 slave boards (16 cells each) plus their partial-master.[/edit]

 

By using the headway 40152S instead of 40160S, the PIS's 4KW kit is no longer 4KW kit. The 40160S barely makes the kit 4 KW. Using 15ah cells would only yield a little under 3.8KW. Usable capacity will be even less.