How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

I am just thinking about numbers and facts.

If you talk about the PiP you save less than 90 cents by plugging it in at. That just isn't much. There have even been people on this site who said they would buy it simply for HOV access and would not bother plugging it in.

I am curious how it will play out. Obviously the early adopter technology enthusiast crowd may well plug in b/c they are excited about it. We will see what happens in the future though.

 

Since I won't ever be talking to anyone about HOV use, it's a moot topic. Those with the ability to plug will ask about how to best use it, not whether or not to...

Increasing MPG from 50 to 75 reduces annual typical gas consumption (15,000 miles) by 100 gallons.

For someone like me who's been in the 90's lately, that's a reduction of around 150 gallons.

 

Plugging in is an excellent way to use less gas.

John1701a, 150 gallons/year is great! Are you plugging in twice a day, or are you exceeding the mileage estimate?

 

I am all for using less gas, but it takes time which is a commodity people seem short of. (Of course the logical counter argument is going to the gas station takes time).

If one wanted to save gas and time wasn't an issue they could obviously do something even further such as ride a bike

 

It's at home and at work, twice for me with a 17-mile drive each way.

For those with half the commute distance or those dreaming of a battery-pack with an 8 kWh capacity, they'd get similar results... if it were truly that simplistic. In reality, results from day to day vary dramatically.

Here's my daily detail:

 

Plugging in at home takes maybe 5-10seconds.
Plugging in at work, well its allowed at one office and the other I have to get lucky to get one of 2 spots (the most desired spots of course) and then run an extension cord out the window to plug in. I only do it if I really need it and I can get in early enough to get the spots.


The PiP is good for those that have 12 miles R/T or 24 + ability to plug in. The Volt is good for those that hat 35 RT or 70+ ability to plug. Each has its market place.

 

You still get a MPG boost even if you just plug in at home.

You still get a MPG boost even if your commute is 17 miles.

Generalizations simply don't work.

 

I drove a hymotion prius for quite some time and it took more than 5s for me to plug in. Maybe your setup is handier, but I am speaking from personal experience in terms of it taking time. In that case I plugged in for novelty since it was even less EV capable than a PiP. For some reason plugging in at work was more fun since they paid for the juice willingly. It took longer there as well. I had to drape an extension cord over a concrete wall then run around the other side and plug it in.

 

After following the thread, I have a couple of observations:

1. Nasty words hurt all readers of this thread. You want the new readers to think that their IQ goes up buying a PiP, Volt, or EV. Some posts defeat that goal.

2. Cars that rely on an existing frame must have some compromises and advantages. The compromise is some performance reduction. The advantage is some cost reduction. One of the Prius advantages was developing the ENTIRE car from scratch. Now it is the PiP Prius disadvantage. The PiP battery's form factor was determined 8 years ago, not by ideal need. The Volt's advantage is the ENTIRE car was designed from scratch. The disadvantage is price. Both makers have the opportunity to address these, so just one year of fielding is too short to come to terminal conclusions.

3. You can compare the Volt to the PiP Prius, but that should be for a buying decision. If it is a technology comparison, then some aspects should be the first year volt to the first year Prius.....which was the Japanese version. It's clear that Toyota deserves the pioneering hybrid bragging rights, but it's clear that the Volt deserves the pioneering Plug In Hybrid rights.

 

Below is a shot of my setup. A rubber tiedown with 2 s-hook ends is hanging from the garage door opener and holds the EVSE connector just above the car's charge port (see inset). I get out, grab it, and plug it in, and set. Takes more time to get the backback out of the car.




Since I don't need to take the L1 charger with me I just leave it hanging in place, ready to go. When I do need, I pop the L1 off the wall, release it from the j-hook by the door, and off the tiedown and loop the cord it on the EVSE handle.

Being stretched out keeps it cool, and its above head height so no problem with tripping or catching. The position of the hanging cord is also a great alignment mark when I pull into the garage so i can park with maximum clearance in the front leaving just just 4-5 inches between the car and garage door.

 

May be good for less than 60 but below 15miles, Prius PHV is a better choice.
For my "profile", I need a good trunk and 5 seat, also I make Lisbon-Porto and other trips more than 15 weekends a year.

 

This is why choices are good. If you need room for 5, the volt isn't the car for you, even if you drive the distances where the trade of electricity makes sense. The prices that they charge for these cars in europe though, makes me think that neither makes financial sense right now.

 

Portugal is spending a lot on charging infrastructure a Leaf might even cut it there if a person were not in a hurry on "long" trips. 316 km could be done in some of the other electrics but they are the pricey ones.

 

No new car makes financial sense, ever.
Do not forget in Europe even hybrids are heavily taxed, my Snow White cost me 32000euros back in March 2010, roughly the same as a PHV you have for sale in US for now.
Between the two, Volt/Ampera sounds a bit too much for the price, and a possible few gallons per year may not be much of a lead. And knowing GM vs Toyota for some years, Prius is music.

 

Is your photo, the way you intend to leave your wiring? I hope you get an electriician to install a hard wire vertical drop for you. Have the job done right!

DBCassidy

 

Yes its how its configured at least until I get around to building my own level 2 openEVSE. If/when I do the L2, I'll install it on the celling above the opener and still have the flexible EVSE cord hanging much like I have it now. (Not sure I'll do L2.. I might install that at work if I can get permission as then others can use it.. and I have plenty of time to charge at home, but if I do midday trips, less so at work).

The orange wires you can see are all the EVSE cord, (NOT an extensions cord), so there is not much electrician could/would do that would also allow easy take-down. I consider the overhead safer than on the floor which is what most people will do with their EVSE cord running from the wall. The low point of that arch is about 7', so no risk most people.

I actually have an overhead plug, and initially plugged the EVSE into that and had excess on the EVSE handel. But when I need to take the EVSE off the wall it was a hassle and also the cord warmed up more. Now its easy to take down and always cool.

 

It does look fairly poor though I admit If it was higher near plug and then had a hook in middle it would look nicer, but it would be more a pain to hook up and therefore probably actually less safe. It is much safer though up there where it cannot be trammeled upon.

 

Just got back from a week in Bermuda and caught up with the discussion.

I noticed the electricity consumption being ignored when discussing the efficiency. If you want to use MPG, use the gas miles and DO NOT add electric miles, per SAE recommendation. Prius PHV separates the EV and HV miles and reports both kWh and gallon consumption. Volt doesn't do it but you can dig through the OnStar report to figure them out.

If you consider gasoline being the only fuel (ignoring electricity), Volt will appear to be more efficient. However, if you include both fuels, Prius PHV is more efficient (composite MPGe) overall from the data collected so far.

And then there is refueling time, size (midsize vs compact) difference and the fuel production efficiency to take account.

 

Not sure to whom you are aiming your generic volt attacks.

Please cite the data that shows the Prius PHV is more efficient (MPGe) overall.

From the spreadsheet the best PHV performance so far is Irun6.2 at about 85 MPGe overall. The average is 65. I'm over 96 MPGe and I'm not even near the top of the EV% users of Volts.

Note the spreadsheet is highly biased.. with overall MPG well above say fuelly's MPG for the Prius.
If you are going to say the MPGe on Voltstats, that is just based on the EPA electricity usage not actual for me, voltstats.net estimates 69.9 MPGe, while Im really over 96. So its too noisy to consider meaningful ).

Funny how I don't see you complain about just discussing MPG in all the plug-in-prius threads where it has already become common to discuss the difference between techniques for 250mpg vs 310 mpg on a 17mile trip where 2-3 miles use gas.

You fueling time is crazy wrong, especially given this thread is about a Volt PiP comparison. With a PiP people would plug in just as much, if not more, hunt for plugs at work/shopping, etc. I just charge at home.
With respect to plug vs gas, I've spent < 3 min in gas stations since last september.. how much time have you wasted refueling?

Yes I gave up few cubic feet of volume for better performance and more EV range -- and anyone considering volt vs pip can make their own choice between those two dimensions.

I'm running on renewable energy so fuel production efficiency is fantastic.

Finally, the use of MPG, MPGe, MPG_CS or other terms depend on what one wants to emphasize.
How many miles per soldier (MPS) are you getting in your prius?

 

How about the indicator "soldiers since EV1 crushed?".
Come on, DrI, keep on track.