How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

I think it is based on the number of awards but real and unbiased car enthusiast <grin>. Now the Volt/Ampera are getting
various awards overseas.

The PiP sales will be boosted by those wanting them for HOV access as well it seems. So after a few months it'll be interesting to see how the sales continue. Obviously, the Volt sales are boosted by HOV access as well for a while.

Interesting article and quotes in this article:
banished-from-the-h-o-v-lane-prius-drivers-may-be-first-to-embrace-new-plug-in-model/
Banished from the H.O.V. Lane, Prius Drivers May Be First to Embrace New Plug-In Model - NYTimes.com

 

You betcha,

It looks like total US Volt sales to date are 13,374 units.
PiP US sales to date appear to be 2,552

With Volts selling 1500-2000 cars a month and Toyota not planning on shipping more than 15,000 units this year when should we look for the impressive sales gap?

 

I think the Ampera/Volt will be more successful here in the UK as Toyota have priced the PIP only £2,000/$3,200 less than the Volt, though the Volt ain't cheap.

You may as well pay the extra £2k and get a 40-50 mile range instead of the 10-15 with the PIP. Word in the UK hybrid and EV forums is that the PIP will be a major flop. There is no particular reason to get one and at £33k/$52,500 it is a LOT of money.

 

yeah, bbbbbut...after 35 mile EV range, you only get a max of 37 mpg in hybrid mode, and you have to use premium gas.

 

Nope, not a max of 37.. you get 35MPG city, 40 MPG highway (EPA).
If you are going more than 35 miles probably have some highway in there (UK gets hold mode, so they can choose which 35 for EV). Using highway numbers, one has to drive > 120miles between charges for the PiP to use less gas. Since most people don't drive that much pe day, and do more local than very long distance driving, its hard to see why that matters. (Maybe it is just a psychological block).


These are all EPA numbers. As usual, YMMV. If you think the PiP gets more than 11miles per charge then you be like many volt owners that get much more than 35 per charge, if you think you would get > 50highway mpg in the PiP, then you would probably get > 40highway in the Volt too.

 

You spend time on an anti-gm blog and posting to gm fanboi sights because you want them to be a better company? I hate to tell you this but hundreds negative posts complaining how bad something is doesn't normally hit as constructive criticism. If this was really your purpose, you may want to change tactics

 

In a nutshell, this is exactly why I am raking the PiP over the coals, because there is potential for so much more, a Volt Slayer if you will, and I refuse to settle for the lower grade that is currently available.

 

or more. We have a Leaf/Volt household who did 52 miles last night without gas in her Volt

 

Totally agree here. If the PiP had 35 mile range I might be driving one. Toytoa could have done that in 2009. Maybe at a higher price but it could be an option , choose 4, 8 or 16kw pack. Instead the offer too little, too late.

:focus:

A buyer gets a choice between:
1) a 45K-50K car ground-up EREV design, which is effectively effectively heavily discounted to 33K., to go 35 EPA miles per charge.

2) an enhanced hybrid (25K car) with PHEV enhancements priced effectively 31K to get 11EPA miles per charge.

UK prices are higher for both, but apparently its about the same relative difference just scaled up.


So while some folks feel its more important for the company to make a profit on these now, I think many buyers care about the value they are getting. I know I did.

 

Maybe so, but I have gotten 60 mpg on trips from NYC to DC with my regular Prius.

 

The Volt can run on regular. It does have knock sensors. The premium requirement is mostly for shelf life, since it won't be burning gas often.

If a Volt owner was going on a long trip, they could use regular. The mental handicap that makes premium fuel requirements a negative would let the driver think they are saving money with regular. They are per gallon, but performance and economy has dropped. When the cost is figured per mile, there is little to no difference between regular and premium in cost. So regular lets you think you are saving money while having to fill up sooner and releasing more ghg.

Concerning Europe (I'm not sure if this is true of the UK), their regular is the same octane as our premium. Fuel type doesn't apply to Prius PHV/Volt comparisons. This also applies in Japan, where Mazda has made some great strides in improving ICE car efficiency. We won't see the full extent of those improvements here, because they had to detune the engines to run on our regular, or not sell cars because of our premium hang up.

You'd probably get 42 miles EV range with a Volt, and 42 to 48mpg then. The Prius will still likely win out on such a trip, but comparisons need to stick to the same source for numbers.

 

European commutes are shorter than in the US so the 35 mile range will cover most peoples routes.

Premium gas isn't an issue here either as we only get Premium (95RON) and Super (97/98 RON). When unleaded was introduced 25 years ago it was decided to not bother with the lower octane Regular unleaded.

In a few European Countries (the UK for one), petrol is cheaper than diesel and at $9 a US gallon for petrol, an electric type vehicle like the Volt will be popular. The 37 mpg US works out about 47 mpg UK which isn't too bad for an automatic car. Sure the existing Prius beats it, but most people here use manual diesels if they want economy.

Much that I would have liked the Prius Plug In to succeed - as I did want one, at the price they're charging they haven't a hope. It's obviously inexperience at Toyota UK HQ who don't quite understand what they're dealing with and think the PIP and Volt are one in the same.

 

Pretty good milage.
Here is a post on a recent 130mile trip, where with one charge the Volt achieved 77mpg overall.


If you get 60 in a prius you'd get 48 MPG_CS or so in a volt and in fair weather 45-50 per charge. Comparing 45 per charge and 48 highway vs 60 highway, the cross over where Pirus would use less gas is 180 miles.. pretty much NYC to DC range.

 

Well a similar thing could have been said here and I think the PiP will succeed further than the volt still. Perhaps some of the other drawbacks (like no 5th seat) are not as problematic there either.

 

Heck even 20 miles would have been great. 11 is just so weak I bet a lot of people won't even bother plugging in. Especially those who bought it for HOV lane. That is also part of the problem with a vehicle design that gets such great mileage in CS mode and requires gas often for acceleration etc... It makes the consumer IMO less likely to want to plug in.

 

Who are you trying to convince?

103 MPG from my current tank at 596 miles.

It's pretty easy to see the benefit.

 

Link:
Why the Volt Requires Premium Gasoline

 

x2

One year ago my experience with the PHV test gave:

3 days 340miles total, with a Lisbon-Porto 210 mile 52MPG Hwy journey - 67MPG overall
In town commuting, 123MPG for the remaining 130miles. Real, not MFD.

If I have test driven a Volt, I would have get 40MPG 210miles and almost no fuel consumed in that town days: 59MPG overall.

 

The Volt is quite good at 60 or less daily miles. My daily is typically < 40 but a couple days a week it hits over 40. My last 1,500 miles have used 1.0 gals of gas. Pretty good MPG at 1500 MPG. Lifetime with buying in NY and driving to IL is over 250 MPG.

 

And if it was your every day commute, then I'd say you made a good choice. But that is unlikely. Measuring the occasional trip needs to be weighted by your expected frequency of such trips.


And counterbalancing many of the folks getting exceptionally good PiP EV range and milage there will be be people like this

Later in her thread she recounts that the 9-10 is the actual EV range (hilly area)..
The overall gas usage, looking at fuelly is up to 69MPG, which is enough to get people interested. But it is still only about 1/2 of the MPG average of the Volt.
(PiP MPG isbetter on the PC spreadsheet, but that is a smaller and more biased sample that only a few will know about).



I don't however agree with sxotty, i think people will plug in if its reasonably possible.. because it still cheaper. I agree there will be some HOV folks that park on the street or live in an apartment with no charging ability, but unlike some Fox News folks make it sound, Plugging in is really easy.