How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

When Hell freezes over. Or when GM starts selling it for what it's actually worth.

I personally don't like the concept, and I think it's way overpriced, so that only very dedicated people will buy it.

HOWEVER, I do think that the Volt is a good thing (or would be if they charged what it's worth) because it could serve as a bridge to electric cars. For me, the Prius, with its 0.5 to 1.5 mile electric range was enough to whet my appetite and get me into an electric car. For most people, that's not enough. The Volt, with its genuine electric performance in the first 35 miles, is enough to really give people a taste of what driving electric can be. After that, the logical step is to dump the ICE and all the complexity that goes with it, and move to the elegant simplicity of an EV.

It's too bad that GM does not want that to happen, so they priced the Volt where too few people would buy it. Those that own it love it. But few people are willing to spend that much money for a small, 4-passenger sedan that still has all the complexity and maintenance requirements of a conventional car.

I don't think they should kill the Volt. I just think they should knock $10K off the price.

 

Because of range limitations and lack of charging stations, it is unfortunately necessary to make vehicles like the Volt for the next several years, to get the public accustomed to the fact that you can make an EV work without impacting your lifestyle. At least the Volt can be driven like an EV, while the PiP was limited in so many ways to make it simply a more expensive hybrid. If the Volt is a bridge, the PiP is a mere stepping stone.

You are far too kind to the PiP. The median MPG on Voltstats is 175 MPG, while the median on the PiP spreadsheet is 73 MPG. And that doesn't even begin to address the other shortcomings of the PiP due to its ultra-conservative implementation.

Look at it this way. A diehard Chevy fan would trade in their 35 MPG Malibu or whatever and have an expectation of getting 175 MPG in their Volt. That is 1/5 the gas consumption, and makes a meaningful impact on one's contribution to limiting our dependence on foreign oil. A diehard Toyota fan, on the other hand, trades a 50 MPG Prius for the 75 MPG PiP. I suppose getting a green HOV sticker and free airport parking helps to offset the disappointment. There are a number of people here who instead of buying a PiP kept their Prius for longer trips and bought an EV for the daily grind. Now that's a good match for most needs.

 

I don't know how many there are, but that's me for sure. The PiP is a step up from the Gen II Prius, but not enough of a step to tempt me, considering the cost of trading up and how seldom I'd use it, given that I have a 245-mile-range EV that's the coolest car on the planet.

 

quite a few actually. on MNL, there is probably 2-3 dozen Leaf/Prius households.

it is too bad the Volt was not cheaper because i would consider dumping the Prius for it to increase the potential of mostly EV instead of about half. by this time next year, we will have a few options in that category. doubt if it will be cheap, but looking forward to hearing the specs on the Fusion Energi

 

The sales numbers of units sold is the acid test on wether the volt is better than the Prius.

THAT, at this point in time - has not happen.

The customer is the final judge (purchasing of vehicle) on which vehicle is better.

So far, the Prius is the better vehicle.

DBCassidy

 

Disagree. Is the Prius better than a Mercedes S class vehicle? Some say yes, some say no.

'Better' is completely subjective. What is better for one person, is not better for someone else.

If you are using 'better' as an objective, please give us your definition of what makes a vehicle 'better' for everyone?

Or, alternatively, are you saying the Prius III is better than the Prius C? Or that the Ford F series is better than the Prius, or that the Camry is better than the Prius?

 

A so by your logic a ford F150 is way better than a prius? Or the Big Mac is way way better?

It is fine to consider the most popular, but that is only one dimension of of a potential better. If you just consider popular is better than that is your choice. Personally I like to think for myself.

 

Sales numbers speak for themselves.

DBCassidy

 

I agree they speak for themselves. And, by definition, they are talking about units sold, or dollar value of items sold, not about quality.

Heck, Dahl sold 1.5Million pet rocks in a year. What does that sales number say to you?

 

That's only true if you don't give a damn about MPG. The PiP will go down in history as the stupidest hybrid that Toyota ever made. Look at my garage: I own two Prii, a Rav, and two Sequoias. I am a Toyota fan, as well as a hybrid fan! But I would never buy a PiP. Short range, low speed, limited power in EV mode -- it is no better than dropping in an aftermarket PHEV kit.

 

Practical & Affordable is stupid?

Poorly informed is the best way to respond to that...

 

oh do they?

raw #'s only show you one part of the picture. the picture can be controlled by

1) over manufacturing
2) sales incentives
3) distribution

i am guessing in May and June the Fusion and the Escape will see an increase in sales #'s that will make each product bottom line look good in the year end figures.

what it will not show is the Zero % financing offered on each to lower the inventory on the lots to make room for the 2013's.

what was the #1 selling Vehicle up to this point? well, it was not a 2012 MY, it was the 2011 F-150. most of it was fleet sales, most of it was sold at bargain pricing simply because they were taking up space needed for newer models

another thing to look at is product introduction. although the PiP is radically different, it has more acceptance due to familiarity of the name (misguided perhaps, but it is a factor) , an advantage the Volt does not have.

there is also supply. To be honest with ya. here is where the company creates its own opportunities. Toyota seems to just be able to supply the product to the areas where the demand exists.

having been VERY intimately involved with the various EV product launches, i was a bit miffed at the appalling ineptitude of EVERY manufacturer involved. announcing dates months in advance only to miss them by YEARS is marketing suicide and no EV manufacturer is innocent of this. (remember the Tesla S launch was Summer 2011!)

now, maybe Toyota does a better job because they are simply not stupid enough to tout a product that has not been built yet. i dont know, but what we dont see very often is Toyota missing their launch dates (the 2010 predictions were spot on) and every one else missing theirs by several months to several years.

in retrospect; i think a big part of Toyota's big numbers over the Leaf and the Volt is simply their ability to satisfy the initial demand much more effectively. iow, the early numbers means nothing. 18 months after the Leaf launch, we still have people in the game from day 1 still waiting to get their cars. Toyota does not have that issue

 

For those that say and feel this way, how do you propose GM does this?

The Volt shares the platform with the Cruze. When equipped to match the Volt's features, the Cruze prices out to $23k to $25k. Feature to feature isn't possible and it depends on where you start.

To this the Volt add a large electric motor, a smaller one, an inverter with cooling system, a charger, and a climate control system for the battery. Then there is the battery, for which I've heard quotes of $10k to $15k for alone.

I agreed, the Volt's price is a hinderence to wide scale adoption, but where can cost cuts come from? Increased production, but that requires increased sales. Reduce the battery size? It is oversized with the buffer capacity GM gave it. The thousand or two price reduction won't offset the potential negative PR battery problems could cause. Move production to Mexico?

The Volt is too expensive for the everyman. Then again, the Prius PHV, Leaf, and iMiEV are pricey to the everyman.

 

Good rant until this point. The prius phv was originally 2010, they switched it to demos and missed the date by 15 months. The volt hit its date but not its numbers. The leaf was anounced last

You are only looking at 1 month. The leaf sales look pretty bad, but lets see if Nissan can pull something off with american production in january 2013. Toyota beat volt this month, but will they stay above? I would say its way too early to tell.

 

the Chevy volt hit its initial launch date? Hmmm, I have to investigate that one

 

John, I know you love your PiP and Prii in general. I expect you not to agree with my opinion, which grows stronger every day against the PiP. But your signature with 70.0 MPG and this non-response response pretty much shows that the PiP has indefensible shortcomings. After some initial worries, the Volt is emerging as a clear winner as a PHV, if you care about MPG. www.voltstats.net -- 70 MPG is in the bottom decile of reported mileage there. If you don't care maximizing MPG or green stickers, then neither the Volt nor the PiP is a good choice.

For the PiP, the pack is too small, the speed and power in EV mode is limited, and gas consumption is not meaningfully different than its conventional hybrid counterpart. This is important information for people who are researching PHVs and want to make an informed decision.

 

I disagree with both of you
Neither the PiP or the Volt is the best plug in. It all depends upon the driving patterns and needs of each individual.
If someone's daily commute is 11 miles and once a week the take a 300 mile trip, the PiP is the better car for them.
If their daily commute is 30 miles and they take long trips very rarely, the Volt is better for them.

Both serve a different section of the market and both serve to expand the overall number of PHEVs and ease the transition for some to EVs.

Kudos to them both!

 

Agree with the Kudos for the Volt technology and longer EV range, however, for those of us on even occasional road or highway trips and used to 53 mpg on HV without even trying, 30 something mpg and premium gas required by the Volt would be somewhat galling. On the PIP trying to maximize our EV miles and being able to choose when we use the EV miles, we are finding we are getting 60+mpg highway by the time the trip is finished.

For someone whose main concern is a daily commute in that range, the Volt would still be a fine choice.

 

Can't agree MPG can make clear winners here. Driver's profile/commute is detrimental -> and that is the most important information for potential owners!
Also the pack being too small, it just mates the average trip, it is a bright decision - keeps 5 seat and a versatile trunk and the HV model at a "reachable" price (it is not cheap).
For your words I think you haven't driven a PiP yet (have you?)...its EV power and speed allows ICE being shut off most of the EV range in normal conditions. Highway it may blend in with gas, as expected because it is a wise plug-in.

 

70 MPG includes an intense HV trip up north with bikes on the back. It's misrepresentation to exclude that mention. What about my most recent tank, measured at the pump as 96 MPG?

As for the non-response response, you know quite clearly how I couldn't care less about MPG bragging-rights with disregard for cost.

The purpose is replacement of traditional vehicle production. How can it win if that doesn't occur?