Prius Plug-in vs Chevy-Volt thoughts

Gas tank can be refilled in mins. Volt battery takes 10 hours to recharge using the standard charger.

1 gallon have equivalent energy as 4 recharges Volt battery can hold.

My point is, if you are going to use both fuels anyway, use the right fuel for the right condition.

 

They promote a red herring (something middle-market neither cares about nor will actually use) as if it is a selling feature.

What's the point of that?

 

What's interesting is that some of the early green Prius adopters are buying Volt regardless how electricity is being used. Using the electricity irresponsibly can result in the increase in carbon footprint.

It is important to remember the root of the green revolution that Prius moved us forward with. Going for the "driving experience" is one thing but it is another to brag about using electricity irresponsibly.

We need to keep moving forward and not take any step back. Prius PHV is a "fool proof" way of cutting carbon footprint because it will use the right blend of fuel at all time.

 

interesting how you still appear to be using a US average carbon intensity of the grid and applying it universally.

For those in much of the country, EV power is less carbon intensive than even the Prius. Each year that margin increases as the grid gets cleaner and the source of our oil gets dirtier.

I agree with your statement for limited areas of the country as of 2010.

 

I respectfully disagree, I believe moving forward is moving towards greater electrification. One of the big hurdles is a stigma that electric cars are poor performing econo-boxes (golfcarts). The present generation of high-end performance oriented EVs (Tesla, Karma, Volt, etc...) is changing that.

Most people would prefer to use less gas, but they don't want to have to give up performance for it. By bringing higher power EVs to market we are helping break the stigma and lead to more electrification.

Telling people I have fun ripping down the highway silently at 85mph isn't about bragging how much juice I am wasting, its trying to let people see how fun an EV can be.

 

A red herring? People drive on the freeway every single day. With a Volt, you can do this without burning a drop of gasoline. With a PiP, you can not.

Posts like this one (abbreviated) are a good example of how Prius owners get labeled Pious.

Open up your eyes and realize that there is more than one way to move forward and that restricting options and acting holier-than-thou only increases resistance towards progress that you so very much desire.

I think everyone here understands how much you love the Prius plug-in and believe that it represents the ultimate in "green" motoring. Every other post from you on the subject highlights this and berates other options on the market.

Never mind the minuscule differences in emissions to those options compared to other vehicles on the road.

Never mind that there are multiple other plug-ins on the market that fit many people's requirements better than the PiP while emitting less CO2, other pollutants and burning less gasoline than the PiP could ever hope to do due to limitations of the HSD.

 

That has absolutely nothing to do with driving well above the speed limit, hence an attempt to sway the discussion off topic.

And since when is the absolute of no gas whatsoever a top priority?

Diminishing returns very much plays into the reality of vehicle cost.

 

Also, let's not forget the substantial MPG boost PHV delivers even when the engine is running. It seems trivial or wasteful now... but it won't in December. Last year's record mild winter and limited distribution of Volt didn't bring that to the forefront. This year will be quite different.

 

Wow.. 1galon is 4 recharges.. so you are getting 200mpg in your prius?
Even at EPA ranges 4 would be 140mpg.. good luck with that.


(and the Volt speed limit is 101mph not 104mph.. It is still accelerating well when it hits the limit. I want to try it sometime on a really steep downhill to see if I push it higher, but i doubt it).

 

As is common, you are misstating the facts. So if someone's purchase priorities are not consistent with your's, so they are not middle market?

Why do you think Cruze/Colorlla's are "middle market".. they are well below the average vehicle price. The Volt, after tax credit, is only a little above the average. it's clearly middle market. Just not an ecnobox.

Its not designed/priced for the mass market of low-end vehicles, so what. Let the more wealthy people pay extra for the R&D and putting in extra effort to ensure quality in the initial few years.

 

I am aware that you and a few others Volt fans took my statements that way.

Let me state it differently. Prius PHV uses the gas engine for maximum acceleration and EV speed limit at 62 MPH for many reasons. It balances EV power with all other attributes (cost, interior space, etc). Volt is bias toward the EV power and compromises on everything else.

I always highlights the trade-offs whenever someone compares only the EV experience and leaving out the rest. Those statements were not meant to be "Prius PHV superior than Volt". They simply says, look, if you use a blend of hybrid powertrains, see what benefits you can get other than high speed EV experience.

If the Volt works with your commute and you get clean electricity, great. Volt was not designed to lower emission for average electricity but to give EV driving experience, while it lasts. Prius PHV was designed for greater range of people.

 

Nobody buys a $100K high-performance sports car because they "need" it. They buy it because they want it. In my case, Nissan were being such a-holes that I gave up on them and spent much more for a much better car.

But let's look at the economics:

Buying a Leaf and keeping my 8-year-old Prius would have cost me less than trading in the Prius for a Volt. The Volt is so expensive that I'd be better off buying the EV and keeping the Prius. That gives me the best of both worlds. A pure EV (for close to 100 miles if I had gotten the Leaf) so I'd be using zero gas for trips out to about 80 miles, and better FE than a Volt for the longer trips.

Since I ended up with the Tesla, the Prius only gets used for long road trips, hauling recyclables, and parking at the airport.

Altogether a better solution than one car that's too expensive and is inferior to the Prius for long trips, and inferior to the Leaf out to about 85 miles, and inferior to the Tesla for anything under 245 miles.

Not true. It will use the blend that it can use most efficiently. ANY time the Prius is burning gas, it's less efficient than an EV, and it has such a small battery that its use of grid electricity is minimal. The PiP design would be way superior to the Volt if they had the same size battery. Since they don't, the PiP beats the Volt only for relatively long drives.

 

Not sure how to answer that. My stats:

https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/475

My totals are: 7021.73 / 8668.93 for electric/total.

If I divide 7000 miles by 50 MPG I would have gotten in the Prius it is 140 gallons ( x $3.75 for $525). Not sure how work out kWh except with averages.

 

I can provide you a spreadsheet for estimating kWh from voltstat data (I'm trying to get Mike to include it on the site). Basically a full charge is 12.9 kWh (from the wall), so you can take miles driven on that charge and compute miles/kWh. You can average such measurements over many days (skipping days were you cannot estimate because of a mid-day charge or whatever) and then multiple the average kWh/mile times EV miles. Personally I use 30.49 kWh/100miles, the EPA estimate is 36.

 

The problem comes when people brag about not using gas when they could have chosen more efficient vehicles to obtain the same results. Saying "My Volt has never used a drop of gas in its entire life" makes you sound stupid as a Leaf could have done the same and saved you a lot of money doing so.
On the other hand, a person claiming that his Volt has only used very little gas will sound smart because the EV range of the Volt is just about right for his needs.

I question everyone who brag about any kind of performance, as if to justify their purchase, when there are superior alternatives to what they are bragging about. I want them to be honest and say they purchased the car because it looked cool and the performance is just icing on the cake.

I buy cars because I like how it looks and because of the technology/performance. For my needs any car would be inferior to a bicycle, and I would be doing best financially by owning a cheap bare boned PSA/Toyota triplet for the times where a car is really needed.

 

Really? the volt is "so"expensive..
A 2012 Leaf SL MSRP is 37,250, a 2012 Volt is 39,145. Difference is < $2k. So your 2004 prius must be in pretty bad shape for that to not make up the difference..

Also I'm curious to hear what is your average daily drive length? Are you in the 10% of stretch commuters that drive more than 40 per day?


Of course since you bought a roadster you definitely bought the better car as that is in a league of its own.

 

I assume you aren't talking about me. My annual efficiency on EV is about 30kWh/100 miles from the wall socket (equivalent or better in CO2 on U.S. average grid power to a 50 mpg Prius on gasoline) and during the 8-9 warmer months it averages around 27kWh/100 miles. My hybrid gas-only mileage is typically 42+ mpg during extended drips beyond the battery range.

For most of last week I was completely unable to plugin (I'm in the middle of moving). During that time I drove a very mixed pattern of city (35%?) and highway driving mostly between 55-60 mph. I drove around 400 miles without any plugin charging and averaged 45 mpg. With only minimal effort, I occassionally enabled mountain mode during longer stretches above 35 mph to generate up to 15 miles of charge for "EV" driving at slower speeds.

My conclusion is that it is easy to drive efficiently in the Volt (relative to other cars like the CT 200h and 2nd gen Prius) while still gaining the advantages of better drivability and longer battery range for better utilizing lower carbon electricity available in many areas and driving under common commute patterns.

 

My point: You're giving out financial advice that you yourself won't/didn't even follow.

 

I tried to and I would have. I wanted a Leaf. I was among the first to order. Nissan decided to keep me in the dark and answer all my questions with lies or "we don't know" when I asked what the delay was. Six months after the original promised delivery date and five months after other members here on P.C. had received theirs, with still no explanation from Nissan, and half a dozen broken promises of delivery, and no explanation about why for any of the broken promises, I gave up and bought the Tesla instead.

 

Good point. The dealers are as much a factor in the purchase of a car as the attributes of the car itself.

Over the years I've had dealings with 5 Honda dealers in CT. From multiple bad experiences I would never deal with the one closest to me any more, but I've bought 3 Hondas from Honda of Westport 60 miles away and unhesitatingly recommend them to everyone (but won't deal with their service dept any more). Plus I routinely drive 50 miles to Curtis-Ryan Honda for service (but would never buy a car from them).

I bought my Prius from Atlantic Toyota north of Boston (140 miles from here), which seems like a great dealership. After unpleasant experiences shopping for a Toyota in western CT I avoided Toyotas for many years, and in fact did not shop for my Prius at the local Toyota dealership because it is owned by the same outfit that runs the local Honda dealership. Not for "revenge" particularly, more because life is too short to spend it hassling. As I'm you sure you feel similarly about your Leaf experience.