Real cost of a car vs fuel economy

in WA, no sales tax on Leaf, feds provide $7500 tax credit which can be realized immediately by leasing and then converting lease to purchase.

let me quote from my post;

one could easily add a few years to the payback by dropping features or pricing against a Prius C which is closer in size to a Focus but then you are looking at an optimum scenario favoring gas and i find that to not be an option for most.

i am not going to get into a discussion over possible out the door prices when my Leaf has a NAV system plus other things that cannot be removed.

get fricking hyndai for $14,000 if you really want to argue the point and win

obtw; my REAL out the door cost for my REAL Prius was MORE than the Leaf, so there is a NEGATIVE payback period, but that would be optimizing the argument for EVs which i will also not mention...

oh, oh!! too late, but you made me do it

 

Sorry, another internet miscommunication: I didn't mean to argue with you. I had it in my head that the base Leaf was about $30K because I imagined owning one (assuming our condo carports get wired for recharging), and was simply surprised that the $6000? difference vs a base Prius would pay out that quickly. Size-wise the Leaf is probably somewhere between a Prius c and the standard Prius?

Frankly, these payout calculations usually seem like BS to me because they are so dependent on assumptions and personal situations. For example, somebody who just needs to commute to work alone doesn't care much about space, whereas for somebody who has other needs it matters.

I'm so sick of reading about "hybrid premiums". The Prius is always a problem because there is no non-hybrid equivalent. Even with hybrids that have a conventional "twin", differences in equipment always create issues.

 

no problem, i should have only jumped on you with one foot instead of both feet.

any "pay off" is relative. and there is a million factors to consider

what is your commute? if its less than 50 miles round trip, its hard to beat the math on the Leaf.

if its more than that, then you may have to go with a Prius. right now, the Leaf cost is $37,000 minus the fed credit so out the door cost is about $30,000 plus tax if they apply. your state may have other incentives . put the same options on the Prius and you are only slightly under that figure.

but the Leaf and Standard Prius are probably closer to a match up than the Leaf and any other car. similar size, features, etc.

now, i benefit from cheaper power than most (about 10.3 cents/kw) and more expensive gas than most (currently $3.93 ) along with the possibility of free charging although its not convenient for me other than personal errands. unlike some, i dont have a place to plug in at work so all those factors need to be considered as well

i will say that most of the other knocks EVs have like battery degradation have not appeared yet for the Leaf community. i will say if you buy a used Leaf, have a capacity check first. the only one i know of with verifiable range degradation bought a demo and its suspected it was kept at 100% charge for extended periods of time which is not recommended and he has lost like 15%. others have 20,000-36,000 miles on their Leaf and have lost none

 

No worries, I'm fairly durable.

Yes there are a zillion factors, and they are different for each situation. When I said I "imagined", I was thinking about when I was still working, before I retired in 2008. I commuted 34 miles each way, mostly highway. So a Leaf would have been perfect for me for a commuter and local-errands vehicle - if I had had a place to charge it. Train schedule didn't work for my commuting, not to mention the extra time it took at both ends. So I was commuting by motorcycle weather permitting (45mpg) or Subaru (30-ish mpg) otherwise.

In 2006 I bought an Insight-I for commuting. Over the first 60,000 miles, I averaged 84mpg in it. It seemed silly to ride the motorcycle and get 45mpg, so I sold my bike. After retiring I kept the Insight-I because it's tremendous fun to take it on a highway trip in the summer and average 100-115mpg!! And because it's likely to become a collector's item.

Last year I replaced the Subaru with a Prius Two (yes I already have one, and no I'm not into options). Mainly for the mpg and size, though comfort was an unexpected plus. Size was important. I'm a competitive masters sculler and travel to a lot of regattas, etc. The Prius will carry a single and a double on the roof and the wing riggers and two sets of oars fit neatly inside. MPG suffers but not as much as I expected. It's also used for around-town errands.

The Leaf would work around town, but not for longer trips. I seem to make too many trips back and forth to Boston. That's 140 miles, and a Leaf wouldn't handle that.

So those are MY zillion factors.

BTW, gas here is >$4/gallon due to CT gas taxes I think.

 

means DCFC (DC Fast Charge) is critical for you and a large city like Boston would be foolish to not install them.

 

That's about right. A bit longer if you plug in the time value of the $4K that keeps earning money over the 6+ year period.

If US had a sound energy policy government would have a 10 yr schedule of $1 per year per gallon gas tax increase so people could plan in and get greater savings on more fuel efficient cars.

 

Sorry I was unclear, the Boston trip is 140 miles each way, so I probably wouldn't get there on one charge???

Anyway all I have at the condo is an exterior 120v outlet roughly 50-100' from the nearest parking space, carports are even further and on the other side of the driveway. Working on getting 240v service run to at least some of the carports.

 

Paid 23,000 for our car with tax incentives etc. After 71,000 miles
saved $3,000 in fuel over a car that gets 30 mpg.

Hybrid savings will go up as the price of fuel goes up.
Low maintaince as there are no belts or pullys to change.

Oil change at 10,000 miles and mostly maintaince free
for the first 100,000 miles also no rubber timing belt
as the Prius has a chain driven system and the Prius
motor is not running 100 % of the time like a comparable
gas motor.

I believe the Prius is probably the least maintaince vehicle
out there with 50 mpg to boot.