Gasoline tax

We tend to get so lost in finger-pointing that we forget what the issue was.

 

I'll stick with US Dept. of Energy number of $6B versus "a guy on the internet with an agenda". This was all part of recent debate about the $18B in total fossil fuel subsidies. Obama wanted to cut $2B of the $6B oil company subsidies but was out voted by oil company representatives in Congress.

The entire $18B should be cut off. It's as crazy as the ag subsidies to tobacco farmers, paying people to kill people and, in the case of oil, put the national security at risk.

Gets back to the reason for a gas tax, to reduce oil consumption by increasing the price of the single biggest oil use in the US. Oil should bear the burden of all the military spending over the last 30 years for the oil wars and the preparation for the oil wars, all the pollution that needs to be cleaned up, the mass transit needed to provide more efficient transportation system and R&D and production of more efficient electric, hydrogen etc. vehicles.

 

:blah:

 

^LOL...I do think it's relevant to question what percentage of taxpayer money goes to oil (be it subsidies or foreign policies). Politics aside, I would think that most on this forum would agree that oil conservatism is the best interest of the US.

 

Not to mention the rest of the planet.

 

Planet, definitely...but I was refering to the US I'm sure that I'll be seeing the same local news coverage on oil prices as I have in the past: in the US, people are so tied with gas prices. So when it gets to above $4, then we've got to have soundbites with local reporters ganging up on any SUV fueling consumer. It's then got to be some "news" if they select the soundbites saying "well, I might be selling my SUV" to "well, I'll sacrifice and hope gas prices come down". Either way, Americans do have very low gas prices as compared to the rest of the world. My friends that drive trucks and SUVs are being more envious of my Prius...I'm certainly not feeling any effect of gas prices being in the 3.60s or 3.80s. I also have relatives in Austria who drive Audi diesels and are paying almost the same price in liters vs gallons!

 

Conserving natural resources, good. Taxing the hell out of middle class america to do so, bad.

 

The "middle class" you imagine doesn't exist, never did but even less so today after income losses and government services losses (public schools, universities, roads, bridges, retirement, health care) of last 30 years.

But we digress.

Gas tax is a totally avoidable tax. The point is to get people to do what is best for themselves, their kids, the nation and to use less gasoline. People are very wasteful on driving and can avoid the tax by changing their driving habits and purchasing more fuel efficient cars.

First priority to get people to AVOID paying the gasoline tax and stop using oil.

 

The bill cut $3.2B from oil subsidies and claimed to be all of them, as well as eliminated $1.1B oil companies use of accelerated depreciation put out in a bill to help manufacturers in 2005. The DOE never put a figure out on oil subsidies. I don't know where your $6B comes from. There

There are funds available for low income assistance for home heating oil. Obama cut these last year, but congress put back some of the money. I am not heartless, and don't want poor people freezing in the north east. We have been in a use less oil situation for almost 4 decades though, and there is not much excuse that congress has not gotten people to stop using most heating oil. We need to get natural gas into that area, and give people a choice to switch off oil. A very small tax on a barrel of oil, and a little political will could get these pipelines built. http://nationaljournal.com/whitehou...a-s-welfare-reform-or-fireman-first--20110210

Having good numbers are important. The corrupt carter doctrine that believes the US should fight for control of middle eastern oil, can not be assesed in a dollar figures. I would just say politics does not mean we should have a bad foreign policy.

Yep, there are taxes that lead to conservation, then you have those huge punishing ones that lead to say imperialism. You know like a oil seeking france selling nuclear tech to saddam.

 

Actually, a lot of us have. However, after doing that, paying out of control taxes has become a punitive exercise just to make you feel good.

 

Actually very few of us have which is why US is so energy inefficient, imports so much oil, creates so much pollution and bombs people to make them give us their oil.

20 years of war is PUNITIVE. A Euro $10 gal gas tax is being a responsible adult.

 

I have not read everything on this thread but this is my take.

Cars have become fuel-efficient enough that the current gasoline tax is not enough.

There are thousands more bridges that could fail like the one in Minneapolis about five years ago - our infrastructure needs work.

Both our highways and oil companies are subsidized, a fact uncomfortable to those screaming at alt energy companies receiving government funding.

So I propose no energy company get subsidized - oil, solar, nuclear, nat gas, etc.

Tax at the pump enough to pay for the highways - however as much as it takes....reduce the income tax so the revenue is about the same.

Then the public will have a reality check of how much oil actually costs and be motivated to use less of while we find alt energy we can afford. Contrary to the media, cars and homes can easily use less energy without degrading our lifestyle.

How much to tax overall? That's really a Fred's House of Politics question, but think it's safe to say the recent Mortal Kombat Republicans and Democrats have engaged in has me very concerned....compromise is essential to politics, and our dysfunctional elected leaders are willing to put us on a path like Greece to advance their party's advantage???? The reality is sacred cows dear to each party will have to be cut: military, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, other entitlements. It will get even more painful if the partisan bickering delays it.

Me? I'm in sort of a survivalist mode. Take care of myself. Pay all my bills. Save. Make my car and home as energy-efficient as possible. Always look for a job. Live under my means.

I will prepare for the worst and pray it does not happen.

 

I'm obligated to jump back in.

Do you really want to force people to live in the cities? Because that's what $10 a gallon is effectively going to do, even if you got everyone to magically switch to 1.3L diesels overnight.



Even some of the worst-hit cities by the recession (and with rapidly declining populations) have suburbs that are doing just fine - in fact, often growing rapidly, despite the bust in the housing market.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit"]Detroit[/ame] has dropped from 1.8 million in 1950 to 713,000 - a drop of more than 60%. However, the counties at the edges are still growing rapidly.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh"]Pittsburgh[/ame] dropped from 677k to 305k in the same time frame, a drop of almost 60%, but the suburbs are still growing.

St. Louis dropped from 856k to 319k, some 60%, and the suburbs are growing.

Need more? How about [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati"]Cincinnati[/ame] and its suburbs. How about [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland"]Cleveland, dropped from 914k to 396k[/ame]?

People leave cities for a reason. Crime, drugs, noise, taxes, bad schools, you name it. Why do you want to force them, by making living in suburbia prohibitively expensive, back into those cesspools?

 

^ $10 a gallon gas is not going to force me to live in a city!!! I had to live in downtown Seattle for a year when I was doing bathymetric work for Big Navy. Wonderful place (at least in the 80's!) great people. No thanks!
Been there. Done that.
I lived in Charleston, SC when I was knocking holes in the Atlantic for a living. It may not be a "big" city...but again.....wonderful people! Nice place.
No thanks!
I've attended multi-month schools and been TAD in 'garden' spots like San Diego, Hotlanta, and the like.
I'll keep living on 5 acres, 10 miles from a small town and 60-miles from some not-so-small towns. If gas gets to $20 a gallon, I might have to retire my pickemuptruck and enlist the services of an Elantra as a tow beast for my trailer. IIRC, they can tow in excess of 3000#, and that will meet my needs.
With current equipment, I only require about 5 gallons of gas a week. Sometimes 10 during mowing season...but you get the picture.

Like I said.....call me when gas hits $20 a gallon, but I don't think we're going to see that. When I was in Charleston during Hugo, I got to see firsthand what happens when somebody turns off the gas spigot for a month. Later on, I got to see it again during Katrina down here on the Riviera.
Some Prius drivers may lament "Big Oil" and snivel that we don't have the EU's wise tax-and-spend....and spend.....and spend...energy policies, but if some serious energy supply disruption ever prevents them from wheeling on down to their local Whole Foods store, they'll be demanding that bombs get dropped, and countries get invaded until they can get their fingers on some gas again!!!
There are some people who are driven by sincere desires to lower our energy footprint, and they have the economic wherewithal to purchase EVs, and PHEVs.
That's great! When I was a kid, people never thought that you'd ever see cars that get 50-MPG. Personally.....I don't think that EVs will supplant ICEs as the go-to power plant for cars. You can get a modern ICE to run on peanut-butter if you can figure out how to get it through the injectors, and I don't see a bunch of amped-up EV's delivering Pink Himalayan sea salt and certified organic wheat germ to your local grocery store. I have even less confidence that the TSA will be groping you while you're waiting in line to board an electric airliner.
So...like I said.

Call me when gas gets to $20.

Meanwhile.....keep throwing rocks at Big Oil if you want to.
They can take it.
They're Big.

 

They call it civilization for a reason. We already do live in cities but the issue is how much oil we use, not where we live.

And how did European gas tax of $10 a gallon affect suburban development?

Really? Hasn't had that effect in Europe. The effect in Europe is they are 50% more energy efficient than US and make energy efficient products like cars that US consumers buy.

And the $10 tax is not "magic" just smart public policy that has proven successful elsewhere.

 

It's the rocks big oil throws at US that are the problem, $500B oil trade deficit tax, air and water pollution, $500B in oil war spending to secure oil so "Big Oil" can sell it to you at a hefty profit. Those "rocks" are sinking the ship.

 

Where? Source? Examples?

 

LOL you post a map of europe as your source? You are too funny. I guess I have to be more specific. How about some examples and sources of your "smart policy" being used successfully elsewhere? If the eu has it all so right, lets see some proof not just more hot air. Oh and some specific sources, a link to France's homepage isn't going to work.

 

It is interesting that during a big political upheaval over government response to Wall St's world financial crisis that the gas tax is not an issue for either side. No one ran on repealing the gasoline and Diesel road fuel taxes.

Hollande Vows to Freeze Fuel Prices as French Gas at Record By Tara Patel - Feb 29, 2012 5:26 AM PT Francois Hollande, the French Socialist presidential candidate, pledged to freeze record fuel prices for three months if elected to ease the burden of higher energy costs on consumers. “Our system brings more money to the state every time prices rise,†Hollande said today in an interview on RTL radio. “How can we accept this?â€

A three-month freeze on fuel prices at the pump would give the government time to introduce measures to cut taxes when prices for refined fuel products rise, he said. France scrapped a similar system known as “floating†fuel taxes in 2002. It was designed to steady prices for consumers by varying fuel tax rates. The price of gasoline at French pumps reached a record last week, according to data published today on the website of the refiners’ group. Gasoline, which represents about 15 percent of the French fuel market, reached 1.609 euros a liter on Feb. 24, according to the Union Francaise des Industries Petrolieres. Diesel, which has 80 percent of the market, cost 1.441 euros a liter, about one centime below the record 1.454 euros a liter reached May 30, 2008, it said.