Gasoline tax

The EV's getting a "free ride" since they don't pay gasoline tax does not make sense to me. I calculated FL gas tax rate at ~18%. I then pulled out a utility bill and figured out I'm paying ~15% in electricity taxes. So all this concern about the EV free ride is either due to:
1. the name of the tax matters more than the amount.
2. the higher efficiency of energy use in EV robs the government of their money.

 

Let's stick to US energy inefficiency, the cost of resulting oil imports as far as $500B trade deficit, $500B a year military costs, $500B environmental damage cost (destruction of Gulf of Mexico, climate change, etc.)

We want to discourage oil use. We want to pay for the indirect costs of oil such as military, environmental damage. We want to finance sustainable alternative energy technology. We want to finance alternative transportation solutions.

A gasoline/oil tax accomplishes that or more correctly HELPS to accomplish. Raising gasoline tax to European levels of $10 a gallon. US uses 360 million gallons of gas a day.

Americans used about 360 million gallons per day of gasoline in 2011. With about 305 million people in the United States, that equals more than a gallon of gasoline every day for each man, woman, and child. The United States does not produce enough crude oil to make all of the gasoline used by U.S. motorists. Only about 40% of the crude oil used by U.S. refineries is produced in the United States. The rest is imported from other countries

$8 in "Energy Freedom Tax" would yield 360M x $8 x 365 = $1T a year in oil taxes. That fixes a lot of problems. Assuming a $1 a year phase over eight years = $6T. That's enough to build green economy, eliminate oil trade deficit, eliminate military cost of oil, reduce environmental cost of oil and pay down $3T on oil debt.

Progress with smart policy.

 

Let me get this straight. You say raising the tax to $8/gal would reduce gas use significantly. Then the revenue math is based on no change in consumption.

 

I'm not sure that the cost of gas has changed appreciably in many years - perhaps not since the astoundingly stupid (well, for everyone except the Ethyl corporation) addition of lead in 1923. It's the price we concern ourselves with, since we think that's what counts most to us as individuals. But in economic terms, from an overall societal perspective, it's the cost that matters, and the fact that the two measures are so far apart.

 

Ok so you post a link to the treasury main website. Lets see an actual source that says 14 trillion dollars is spent on "oil wars" as you so adamantly claim. If this is a figure that is anything but hearsay, you must have a source to back your claim.

If I can source all of my previous graphs etc then lets see you back it with some facts.

Put up or shut up.

 

HA, I love that word "progress" that you guys love to throw around. So when you rob the middle class to pay for your "green energy", how are you going to subsidize their loss of net income?

And if you want to create "green energy" companies such as solyndra and the soon to be defunct fisker, then perhaps you ought to leave government out of that equation.

 

The net cost of gas has risen in line with the increase of other goods as well as increase in salaries. But not anymore. Cost of goods and services has skyrocketed while salaries have remained fixed.

 

Only 5% of our national debt is owed to oil exporting countries, which works out to be much less than $3T.

 

You're thinking of price. Economic cost, especially full-cost, is very different.

 

Yes the revenue goes down as gas use goes down but the benefits of eliminating the $500B in oil trade deficit tax and $500B in military spending plus $500B in environmental damage make up for it. They increase as gasoline use declines.

Also, we are building green economy so those jobs and industry start producing a lot of tax revenue.

 

The problem with importing oil from OPEC is not that they hold US debt. If that was the case, they would have a vested interest in making sure the US government could pay them back.

The problem is the huge trade deficit for oil and its scarcity. The trade deficit for petroleum is about 60% of the united states total trade deficit.

U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services (FT900)

The money is a huge drain to the economy. Given that oil is a scarce commodity controlled by a cartel it is not in the nations best interest to use so much. OPEC has given the US economy price shocks that has exacerbated 3 recessions.

I agree that military budgets should not affect oil prices. The military doesn't really help protect the oil. But I would like it cut as it is in disproportion to what the country needs for defense. The large military seems to get used where a smaller one would not. Wouldn't decreasing use require a smaller army for the mission to protect the oil fields? I have no idea what the bases in Europe are meant to protect in 2012. This is all a different issue than oil.

Some want a huge tax, but a graduated one would more likely allow for behavior changes to reduce oil use while not doing great short term harm to the economy. It needs to be on oil, not just gasoline. These partial taxes do not work. Those using home heating oil need to be encouraged to switch just as much as those driving inefficient cars. CAFE increases for 2025 will not work without higher fuel prices, but this money needs to not be wasted on new programs.

 

Eliminating $500B in oil import trade deficit tax, eliminating $500B in oil related military spending, reducing the $500B in air, water and climate pollution is very measurable progress and benefits every American.

$1.3 a year in military spending robs every class.

 

Yeah all those green jobs are really panning out great so far. I guess collecting unemployment is better than nothing.

When you have a real solution to the problem let me know. It might happen when you stop reading into the hearsay and start reading into some facts. You haven't cited any yet.

 

500 billion seems like a nice easy number. Source?

 

Very hard numbers for US economy. Low in 2011 since US is still in recession.

US oil imports 2011
4,146,266.000 barrels
$100 a barrel avg.
$415B a year trade deficit
US trade deficit 2011 $558B

 

Still no source

 

How can he give a source for bad numbers

If you want the numbers for 2011

US Trade Deficit - A Description of the United States Trade Deficit and Its Impact on the US Economy
America's dependence on foreign oil drives the trade deficit. In 2011, the U.S. imported $332 billion in petroleum-related products, compared to $252 billion in 2010.

In 2011, the total U.S. trade deficit was $559.956 billion. This was $2.1 trillion in exports minus $2.67 trillion in imports.

The US also exported refined products, and I'm not sure if that is included in the number.

 

Chuckle. Blue underline means its a link. You read this same link five messages ago (well maybe not read it but saw it). You quoted this link four messages ago. Tsk, tsk.

If you had read it or clicked on the link you would have been taken to the source. US Department of Energy: Energy Information Administration.

Americans used about 360 million gallons per day of gasoline in 2011. With about 305 million people in the United States, that equals more than a gallon of gasoline every day for each man, woman, and child. The United States does not produce enough crude oil to make all of the gasoline used by U.S. motorists. Only about 40% of the crude oil used by U.S. refineries is produced in the United States. The rest is imported from other countries

Had Bush Sr called it the "Patriot's Tax" when the Middle East oil wars began over two decades ago and used it to pay for the Middle East oil wars and to fix US energy inefficiency problem, US would be in great shape today.

 

The lost revenue from gasoline tax is made up for by recouping the $500B lost to oil import trade deficit, the $500B spent to secure oil imports. Those are the hard cash benefits. That's $1T a year back into US economy. Add in the sustainable energy jobs and industry and the taxes those workers and businesses pay.

Exactly right. The number of EV vehicles is miniscule. The idea they need to be taxed for roads is bogus. It's an idea hatched by the oil interests to keep EV's from developing. If anything we should have an gasoline tax specifically to give EV buyers and $10K tax credit especially for US made so Volts fly off the lot.