God: Benevolent or Malevolent?

Studying religion, is like studying a dead language. We pretty much know everything about it, but once in a while we find something new. Religion is also deeply psychological; people who have faith don't know the reason they do, they just do. If you try to find out the scientific reason a person has faith you will be on a quest that will never end. Because of this, religion does not stagnate. Faith adapts itself to the everchanging world.

Trying to compare religion to science, is like trying to shake up a bottle of italian salad dressing. It will just never happen. They are two totally different things. They are as black and white as black and white can be. Trying to do this on a Toyota Prius forum is a fruitless endeavor.

Because science will never know everything, is the reason religion will always exist. From the dawn of time, man has had to know the reason why all is that it is. When people didn't know what the sun was, they thought it was a god because it gave life to the earth. When people didn't know what a thunderstorm was they thought it was Zeus, being angry and hurling lightening bolts down at the earth from atop Mt. Olympus. Then there came a time when we figured out what the sun was, and stopped worshipping Ra. And then we figured out what a thunderstorm is and we stopped worshipping Zeus. And until the day comes that we know everything, we will always attach the unknown to mysticism and spirtuality. Thats the way it has been, and thats the way it always will be.

But I will tell you this,

When a person is at their end, and science has done all it can to save them, there are two things they call out for as they leave this world. Their mother and God.

Believe that.

:rapture:

 

I sort of answered your question - creationism should be presented along with the Theory of Evolution.

It does not help that it seems every time SageBrush posts at me it's in an adversarial mode.

It was also this mode of "let's just throw a boatload of trap questions - more than anyone can deal with...." - common debate tactic of attack by raising numerous issues.

 

There are many different creation stories from various religions and cultures around the world. Do you feel those should those be presented as well? Should they all be given equal weight?

(It's an honest question. I'm trying not to be adversarial, and I hope I've worded the question fairly.)

 

^ what a better time to give this topic to rest than Sunday....for reasons not just Biblical, a rest would benefit others.

 

The trouble is that you see those as different things. A 'theory' IS 'settled science'. There is no higher statement of the way things work, in science, than the theory.

Scientists are arguing about the fifth decimal place on the age of the universe. I am willing to bet that this is more precise than you know the dimensions of the house you live in. They aren't sure what was going on in the time before 10^-45 seconds. A time span so small I can't begin to comprehend it. If you took all the seconds since the universe began and squeezed them down into one second, and then looked a the first one, and did that all again, you still wouldn't be there. I challenge you to name a single thing you experience in normal life which is more 'settled science' than the Big Bang.

On the other hand, scientists would discard it tomorrow if they found something that better matched reality. So, not only are they correctly surer about their theory than you are about anything in your life, they are more willing to discard it should it not stand up to the rigors of evidence than you are.

 

Really?

You were taught 2+2=1, 2+2=2, 2+2=3, 2+2=4, 2+2=5,... until infinity (which therefore constitutes your entire learning experience) and told to decide which one to believe?

I want to see any of your textbooks, tests, homework assignments, anything! Please post one!

 

All right, who is putting a gun to poor Chuck's head and making him read and respond to, these non-car threads on a car forum? Please stop it whoever you are.

 

Very interesting. In other words, people will believe religion, not because there's any truth to it, but because of a psychological need to have answers to unanswered, or unanswerable questions.

I've encountered this argument from believers before. It seems almost an admission that religion is nonsense, at the same time as it asserts that it's necessary. Apparently one of the famous philosophers said "If god did not exist, man would have to invent him." Again, practically an admission that people invented the idea of god. Of course, I believe that's what happened. People invented the gods, each different culture inventing its own gods, and occasionally persuading or forcing other cultures to switch gods.

In the case of Christianity, Paul convinced the Romans to switch from their own pantheon to the Hebrew god, re-invented by Paul as a trinity with Jesus, and the Romans used war (i.e. rape, murder, and pillage) to force Europe to adopt their god, and the Europeans did the same to the native Americans. With, of course, much infighting in between, including all-out wars as well as burnings at the stake and other tortures to force each other to adopt their own particular interpretations.

Thanks for answering the question. If you had answered it before I missed it. Sorry about that.

But as Hyo points out, this raises the further question: Should the creation beliefs of all religions be presented in science class as if they had some evidence behind them? Or only the creation belief of your own religion?

It was actually this question that inspired Bobby Henderson to write his wonderful and inspired book The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The Kansas state board of education had ruled that creationism be taught in science classes, so he wrote them a satirical letter in which he praised them for their "courageous" decision, said that all creation stories should be taught, and asked them to teach his creation story, that the world was created by a flying spaghetti monster. They didn't reply to his letter, so he wrote the book.

Science class is not the place for religious mythology. Religious mythology should be taught. Not just creation myths, but the entire religious belief and social system of all the major religions, and the minor ones offered as elective classes. But not in science class.

As for Sunday, you, of course, are free to rest on your sabbath. I refrained from posting on Easter, out of respect, that being your holy day. My ancestors rested from sundown Friday night to sundown Saturday night, which is the Biblical sabbath. But they took it to such silly extremes that it contributed to my maternal grandfather's rejection of religion entirely. Christians have always been more lenient with regard to their Sabbath, however, so as long as you are not following the Hebrew sabbath restrictions, I'll continue to post my opinions on Sundays.

 

Actually, Science has made some significant progress on the reasons that people have faith. I expect that this will be solved in at most a few decades.

This time line is completely wrong. There was, as far as I can tell no correlation between Ra worship and any understanding of the Sun. Evidence can be taken from our own time. Understanding of the Big Bang and the origins of the Universe doesn't seem to be impeding some people's belief in a 6,000 year old universe created by a god.

I disagree. Once Science knows enough that all the remaining questions require a PhD to even pose, there will be no need for mysticism. Currently, there are only two or three big ones left. No one is going to invent a god to explain the rest mass of the Higgs-Boson.

Not in my experience. 0% of the people I have watched die, did that.

 

We miss you, George...

 

But now that we know what thunderstorms are, how they're caused, and can make reasonably accurate predictions about when and where they're going to occur, nobody believes in Zeus anymore.

We've had gods of thunder, and gods of war; of love, and water, and air...thousands of gods in all...but none of them were real. We know that now.

It's time for humanity to take the next step. I believe our survival as a species depends on it.

 

Genius

 

And what exactly would that next step be?

Many people stubbornly hold on to beliefs that are outdated.

Superstition is a virus in our society that constantly mutates like the common cold. It seems it will always be with us since some people just prefer ignorance. There IS a sucker born every minute.

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

 

Given your opinion, why does it surprise you that rational parents want to keep you far, far away from education, and even further from their children ?

 

Sorry dude, I subscribe to a higher standard than that. I know that I know... something that you may never experience in your life, sadly.
The beauty is, at least for a very small amount of time, is that we can believe whatever we want, put our trust in whatever we want.

 

Time is Money

 

Absolutely spot on Bra... those in power have the ability to limit what gets taught in a given time-frame, and thus limit the exposure to other - just as relevant in the eyes of the adherents - religions/politics...

And in the end, we know this will only limit the understanding of the factual social-diversity as it truly exists on Terra... understanding how religions come into power/influence is an anthropological as well as a philosophically, and often literature-inspired, political social-behavior history engagement... completely different than a proved and tested observation of events, which IS the station of science.

Those who teach often are not concerned with you knowing there is more of the facts... often they are motivated by what information they have been given themselves by others teaching... which is why I think the waters are sort of muddy for so many to see clearly or grasp the concept. Theology is not science... science laws are written because the facts under testing prove it true.

However, I will say knowing that my belief in a creator isn't founded in science, doesn't make me feel any less resolved to try to keep breathing air and marvel at what creation has become, what it could have started out as, and where it will ultimately be some time in the distant future...

The creator is neither, and both...

 

I thought it was women are money...

 

Why, Pastafarianism, of course: Belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I wish the site would let me put ten "thanks" on that post, instead of just one. This is precisely why it's so important that we not allow religious fundamentalists to use the public schools to promote their narrow and exclusivist dogmas.