Snow tires - 2 front vs 4 tires

NEVER use only 2 snow tires on the front. The back tires will loose traction & whip around as you go out of control.

 

You should always run snow tires on all four corners regardless of the drive system. See the following links for more information.

Look at the Winter Tires Test section.
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-fuel-economy/98592-new-tire-tests-tirerack-com.html

See this thread for a bunch more videos.
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-main-forum/102628-should-good-tires-rotated-front-2.html

 

I don't get it. You have a 2002 WRX with 300 whp and extensive suspension mods and can't predict what will happen when only your front (or only your rear) wheels have traction on a FWD car?

 

It would be a lot worse, keep all 4 tires snow tires or A/S tires, just don't mix them.

 

I have never had snow tires on my cars. My dad used to though. I'm wondering if putting a little weight in the back (sandbags ) would help, like you do in a pickup truck. I've never needed it in a sedan before.

 

Thanks Jason, can always count on you for great information!

Haven't had to think about snow tires in like nine years because of the Subaru Baja. Before that A/S tires seemed to have done well for me in the Mid-Atlantic area on my other cars. Do have concerns on LRR base tires in the snow.

 

I am sure more knowledgable folks will chime in; but adding weight to the rear IIRC is for rear wheel drive cars.

Folks like us in the Mid-Atlantic area are in a tight spot when it comes to deciding on snow tires IMO. We generally don't see a lot of snow. And at least for myself working retail, December thru January limits time off to do travel to areas that do see more snow than we do.

 

Years ago when most vehicles were RWD and tires were bias-ply, I used to run M&S only in the back.
With today's radial tires on FWD, I run snow tires on all four in the Winter.

 

No problem, ChipL.

Here's another tech tip. All-Season tires are generally like a jack of all trades but master of none. They generally do not perform as well as summer tires in the heat and they do not perform as well as winter tires in the cold but they do perform better than summer tires in the cold. Make sense?

When temperatures drop below approx. 45 degrees, tires start to lose their pliability and braking performance suffers. This is yet another reason to run dedicated winter tires in cold climates and NOT rely on an all-season tire even though they may grip well in snow. I northern climates where the average temperature is below 40 degrees for 4 months of the year I suggest using a dedicate winter tire. It's safer for you, your family and everyone who shares the road with you. Even in a region with milder winters it is better to use a cold weather tire like the Nokian WGR2 than the Energy Saver A/S (standard all-season).

Good information on braking distance and tread depth:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/videoDisplay.jsp?ttid=85

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=5

Also pertinent to this thread:
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/brochure/winter/tmpWinterFAQ.jsp

 

Putting weight in the back of a front wheel drive vehicle (i.e. the Prius) would have the wrong effect. For more traction the weight needs to be over the drive wheels. Your dad's pickup is probably rear wheel drive so adding weight over the back wheels helps with traction.

 

Makes lots of sense Jason.

My fiancé and I need to talk about which of our cars (his is a 2009 Yaris) will be a Winter car for us. We are lucky that we work about a mile away from each other. So we commute in good weather when possible. May have to plan when snow is in the forecast....

Given my tires are "new"; my upbringing says to hold out make changes on buying Summer vs Winter tires for now.

The miles driven so far (The Grey Ghost (Toyota Prius) | Fuelly) are a bit skewded... In the first 1k miles I wanted to drive my new ride in every situation to break it in. In the past two weeks we did two 300 mile trips R/T. This week since we came back from the beach, I put only 100 miles on my Prius. More of my normal driving. + about 80 miles in other stuff.

 

You have lots of time to figure things out and congrats on the future marriage.

 

I have driven FWD vehicles with studded tires on the front only. Since all steering is done by the front tires it is important for them to have traction. Also on FWD vehicles all thrust is provided by the front tires, and approx 80% of all braking is done by the front tires. Overall the front tires of a FWD vehicle do well over 90% of all the work.

In practice you will see this every time you check tread wear. The rear tires could easily be the cheapest trailer tires, it simply does not matter, since all forward thrust is applied via the front tires, all steering and most of the braking is all done via the front tires. The rear tires do not perform much of the work.

I have also owned and driven FWD vehicles with studded tires in all four positions.



Here is the thing. Where we live, we see 'black ice' form on the roads from low fog at least a dozen times each year. Without studs, if you pass over black ice on a curve you will go straight, and into the ditch. There simply is no tire on the market that can hug black ice without having studs. A vehicle may decide to do 360s if it wants to, you have no influence over the process until you move past the black ice. Even if you step out onto the pavement yourself, you will fall down. But after you install studded tires, you will never again notice the ice.

We drove a few years here without studs. Each of those years, we hit patches of ice, and it was frightening.

After shifting to studs, my wife has asked me if we really still need the studs. She commutes to work every morning and she no longer 'sees' any ice. In her driving, she no longer experiences the ice, so she thinks that it no longer exists.

That is the importance of having the right tires on a vehicle. With them, you will never notice that your driving on ice. Your driving experience will be as if ice no longer happens.



As to having them on front-only or on all-four. If your a professional driver on a test track and pushing a vehicle beyond it's safe operational envelope then you may see a difference. Of course we can all watch those drivers working to make the rear of their vehicle to pass the front during braking.

There have been times when money was tight in my household, and I could not afford to buy four studded tires. So I only bought two and only installed them on the front. It worked. These days money is less tight for us, so we run with four studded tires on our vehicles.

What difference will the average driver notice? The average driver will think that they never hit ice again, they will assume that winter road conditions are better somehow, because their vehicle no longer slides out of control.

Many of our daily commuting routes are shorter in the winter, because we can cross directly over rivers and lakes without having to drive around them like we must do in the summer.

I am not aware of any 'all season' tire that is worth the money during winter driving.

When the plows scrap the snow to fill-in the potholes and it freezes over; this is when our roads are the smoothest to drive on. Because the potholes are smoothed over. Towns with the highest municipal spending [and highest taxes] tend to dump a lot of salt on their roads. Most towns around here do not use salt, so their roads are much nicer to drive on. Our township does not use salt.

One set of summer tires, and one set of winter tires; is the only method that seems to make sense.



RWD vehicles fishtail a lot. Every time they turn; when turning at an intersection, when coming out onto the roadway from a parking lot, they fishtail. The thrust is being applied by the rear wheels, but the front wheels are not in a straight line. The front wheels are turned trying to turn the front of the vehicle. The fact that the thrust of the rear wheels is not aligned to the direction of travel [turning] causes the rear wheels to lose traction and spin.

RWD vehicles are a hazard at every intersection and every time they pull out onto the roadway. Fishtailing is a loss of control. Uncontrolled sliding around in the presence of other traffic is a hazard.

Loading the rear axle of a RWD vehicle with weight may help them to hold traction slightly better. But that added weight also adds to the vehicle's momentum during braking. That weight will cause the vehicle to slide further when you apply the brakes.

Instead of adding weight, consider winter tires. If you never lost traction, you would never fishtail, and you would never become such a hazard to other vehicles.


We live in Maine. If you live up North of us then you may have more severe experiences than what we have had. But here in this area, studded tires are the only thing that works.

 

Thanks

We are welled matched in how we look at the money thing... You had to be there as I took the plunge on the Prius. In the end he is happy with my choice.

Sounds silly to some, but we like doing a drive in to our jobs and back. We are older souls compared to other couples.

He is not in to tech, though I brought him into it after his using a flip phone for many years, now his is Jonesing for the new iPhone 5

We have to tally about our rides for the long term....

 

But a critical piece of work they must do is stay in the rear. They cannot do this if they lose traction.

 

4 is better of course,better for braking and turning,but 2 will get you going.My old subaru outback has spoiled me when it snows.

Steve.....

 

Find a snowy empty road, then slam on the brakes with a car using mismatched tires.

A vehicle without anti-lock brakes will slide to one side or the other. With anti-locks, it's not as bad, but still an unnecessary risk. Having one set snow tires and the other now, you're asking for trouble. I certainly wouldn't ever do that.

If I needed snow tires (which I don't here in Minnesota with the Prius), I'd get a set of steel rims for them. Then just swap them all in the fall & spring. That's what my dad did for years with our big conversion van, which worked well on a vehicle not well suited for slippery driving.