March Volt numbers are in - 2,289

It shouldn't be hindering sales for a few more days. Its kind of a we screwed up admission in the Forbes piece. Dealers were telling them they didn't want more volts, and GM under predicted sales by 700 cars in march. That means they have the appropriate number of cars, but many are at the wrong dealers in the wrong states. That means those dealers that were saying don't send us any volts don't have a selection on their lots. Its a logistics problem and should not take long to work out. The factory can produce cars faster than the dealers can sell them, when it fires back up.

 

A quick charger will greatly increase the times a Prius PHV can take more advantage of its smaller pack. As long as you are willing to risk the long term health of the battery. Quick charging is abusive to the pack. Even with slow charging the P-PHV manual recommends not to start charging use soon as you shut the car down in order to maximize the pack's life. So even multiple charges at the slow rate carry a, likely slight, risk.

Using a small pack to save space and costs is a fine decision. Touting the short charge time for such small pack is marketing spin. It's no different than only having the space for a 5 gallon fuel tank, and saying users will have a low fill cost. The fact is that the efficiencies and chargers in most available plug-ins mean that they are all getting about the same amount of EV range per time. The P-PHV just fills up faster, but it isn't getting more EV range than the Volt or Leaf with the same amount of charging.

The arguement that those cars aren't making full use of their battery with short charges is also spin. They all will, unless forgotten to plug in, have a full charge in the morning. In order to get the same EV range as the others during the day, the P-PHEV has to have access to chargers where it's going, and also the time for the charge. The others can also pick up more range with an extra daily charge. So what if they can't get a full charge in the same time. Depending on the details, short charges into a large pack can be less stressful on it than fully charging and fully discharging a smaller pack multiple times during the day. Besides, they just aren't as pressured to find charging to get what is felt to be full use of their PHV.

More chargers will help BEV sales. As their numbers grow, PHEV owners may want to extend a courtesy and not take up a charger spot that they don't absolutely need to use.

 

so gm was taken completely by surprise by the march sales number?

 

I've got no insider information here, but it seems the underestimated based on their dealers who were probably watching the negative news about volts instead of talking to their customers. There are 3000 volt dealers so many did not sell 1 volt last month and some sold a lot of them. This is from the article from the vp of sales -

Supply chain is "balky" because gm told suppliers not to send parts because they built to poor estimates of demand instead of actual demand. The excess volts were also part of poor manufacturing management, but neither really will affect sales or profits that much for a company as big as gm. I would guess that less than 500 dealers are actually trying to sell the car, and those are the guys most hurt by product planning.

 

lack of factory capacity (Notice the Leaf plant is not on vacation??)

poor exchange rates

MUCH larger distribution area. remember, the Leaf is sold in dozens of countries besides the US.

all of it takes a chunk out of the numbers for the Leaf. keep in mind, many parts of the country are still looking at 8-16 weeks from order date to delivery

as far as Leaf's sitting on the lot; they are still #1 for shortest time on the lot. also MUCH lower inventory nationwide of either the Volt or PiP

 

Would you buy a smaller, cheaper cell phone but that had to be recharged three times a day? Oh, and you had to hunt and find and possibly wait for the charger?

 

If toyota made it, I believe he would. I bought an external battery for my iphone, for when I forget or don't have time to charge it, even though I can charge my phone in my car Silly me, blowing bucks on batteries so I can use my phone when I want to. Next phone I upgrade to won't fit it so, I'll have to give that expensive battery away.

 

If people see the availability of charging-stations at work, coffeeshops, restaurants, stores, theaters, libraries, parks, etc. they are more likely to consider the purchase of a plug-in.

How can that not be coherant?
.

 

First work isn't public, yes having chargers at work will help.

That other stuff for a phev doesn't matter very much. I'm in one of those cities with chargers at parks and libraries. They just started selling leafs here, I've only seen a few. The bulk of the plug-ins I see are volts and teslas, well only 2 teslas. I also am a part of biking and trail running groups. No one on these facebook groups has seen a car pluged in at a park. I know a guy with a plug in, is going to plug in so we can see it operating on the next group ride.

I want them there so that people will feel comfortable in BEVs. If they get popular though, there aren't enough. 2 chargers in a busy park can't handle much traffic, but....no one thinks they will ever get a lot of traffic. Say every one has a prius phv @1.5hours and wants to charge it, the park can handle 12 cars in 9 hours if people actually change as soon as the car is charged. If they get busy, people are pretty friendly here, and the phev drivers would let those BEV drivers use them. There are 100 public chargers as part of the pilot program, and if they get used we will build more, but I can't imagine someone going to the park to charge their car, though if there car is low and they are going to the park, sure they should charge it.

 

Would you buy a bulky, heavy and more expensive cell phone so you only need to charge once a day?

BTW, plugin hybrids also run on gas. Cell phones don't.

 

What's up with the notion that I will buy everything that Toyota make? I also like Ford hybrids and upcoming plugins. If Ford make cell phones, I'll buy them too?

You bought an external battery pack for iPhone? LOL. I have nothing more to say.

 

Actually, some people purchase extended batteries or charger modules for that purpose, usbseawolf.

I do see that people would be willing to purchase 'expander' packs to get more out of their car.

 

Isn't the Engineer kit for the Prius a lot like that?

 

Yep, they sell lots of them. Its my second iphone, the battery is like a case. Before that I bought extra batteries for my phones, but you can't change the batteries on apple products. If you are flying all around, its easy to not charge your phone.

Yep they have one for the phv which is the same concept. The extra phone battery though just stays at home when I'm not on the road.

 

No doubt your Prius gets kicked to the curb, to garage your Land Cruiser :behindsofa:

 

We go to the park to walk around the lake. Having a charging-station available is a nice perk. We're there anyway.

Same goes for the coffeeshop, restaurant, etc...

It also gives an edge to those businesses who have a spot available verses those who don't. That's what building patronidge is all about.
.

 

i have a Leaf...100% battery operated. no gas options. i use public charging as much as possible (assuming i am not full) for two reasons

1) they are currently free which is right in my price range

2) exposure. more than half the time i plug in, i am stopped and asked questions. this is my "soapbox" time and i do not squander the opportunity


so, what is the value of public charging stations in my case? In Feb, i made a point of plugging into free power as much as reasonably possible. i actually went 8 days without plugging in at home for even a second. well, all that saved me about $6.10

now for a month, not much of a return. now, once again, i only did it when it was convenient. it required very little change in shopping habits. there are several to choose from here.

now, the average time plugged in was about an hour.

stats; covers most of Feb and March

3+ hours; 1
90 minutes to 3 hours; 2
45 minutes to 90 minutes; 41
under 45 minutes; 28


the statement that plugging in a PiP was like getting a cellphone with 30 minutes of talk time is typical of the anti EV current I navigate today. what we dont seem to realize is that in many cases YOU WILL be at the store for 30 minutes whether you plug in or not

so if you plug in for 20 minutes, you can look at it as having a 30 minute cellphone or you can look at it the "right way" and by saying you have a 50 min cellphone. so leave Albertsons and swing by Target. plug in another 30 minutes and now you have an 80 min cellphone.


for those neighsayers who still dont get it. watch the movie "How Beer Saved the World"

this movie is a PERFECT example of making facts say anything you want them to say

 

As I said I'm for the public chargers, and I'm happy if you use them. But there is a problem if people buy phevs and expect to use public chargers every day. At least for our small market with L2 charging we would need to build at least 100 times more chargers to get penetration. These also are expected to be used after work, which in my city is peak demand (3pm-7pm) which means more fossil fuel power plants needs to be added to the grid. Its not a good model at least for Austin. Minnesota might be shooting for much lower plug in penetration and maybe it will work there.

Now if you buy a car with a battery you need to plug-in 4 times a day, yes, the analogy is correct. It is not anti-plug in, its anti expectation that public chargers will be available. Right now plug-ins are rare. When there are more of them if everyone expects their special parking spots to charge everyday, there simply won't be enough spots.

More power to you if pluging -in in public gets people talking about evs.

 

Bad analogy. The question is "Would you buy a more expensive cell phone that's easier-to-use, but has less functionality, so you only need to charge once a day?"

 

Thanks for the heads up. I've no doubt the Leafs will continue to sell, but I think the numbers will be pretty tepid, maybe 1k/mo or so US. BEV is like the greatest idea that technically would work for most people's daily driving, but cost, cost, cost is a huge drawback.

I was pretty bummed to see Nissan jack the Leaf price from $32.xk up to over $35k. I would have liked to see it come down a bit, but they added heated seats, steering wheel and also the quick charge port to the base model, right?

I think BEV requires more focus and commitment than most are willing to give, but the Prius can still get people hooked on some amount of electric driving.

Does this make sense - people buy a full hybrid, then they want more electric drive (like me), next they plan for a PHV or BEV. Sounds good.

ooop back to topic