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Without fracking, less natural gas is produced than used. North America has been fracking since the 1940s.

 

I'm not a geologist but I believe it is the cheapest way to get to those nat gas. Just because it is done in a primitive way since 1940 doesn't mean it's acceptable today. Cars did not have cats in the 1940 and still ran, does that mean we don't need it today?

 

Fracking can definitely improve, and has since the 40s, but the oil and natural gas in United States fields is simply not available without this technology.

If you read the history, in the 1970s and 1980s price controls on natural gas caused underproduction. This underproduction caused all sorts of problems. It caused oil fired electric generators to be built. In the late 70s instead of allowing prices to rise and production to increase, the president and congress put in legislation to produce more coal and encourage coal power plants as well the construction of a hugely expensive gas pipeline from alaska.

I support measures to reduce fracking pollution, but shutting down fracking in this country is going backwards to those good old malaise days.

 

You have convinced me to go the PHEV route and put up solar panels instead then. Cracking the earth's crust just sounds like a bad idea.

 

The important word left out above, is "BUT"
Yes, fracking in limited attempts began in the mid part part of last centurty, "BUT" . . . not successfully. That's why fracking TRUELY 'began' in the 1990's ... becauson only then . . . a half century later, did it become economically profitable ... due in part to new techniques, as well as the beginning of diminished ROI through normal gas well drilling:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing]Hydraulic fracturing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

If one simply says, "oh ... it's been going on since the '40's ... " implies that fracking is no big deal because it's been going on for such a long long time. Fracking only recently became what it is... a highly toxic process ... recently ... in the 1990's. The mere fact that companies monkeyed with it long long ago - with no real commercial success, negates what fracking has become modernly ... a highly carcinogenic stew. Similarly when folk's well water ignite on fire, the fracking industry re butts, "oh that's no big deal ... well water has 'naturally' contained flamable gasses since long ago.". The answer to that subtrafuge is, "yea, but now it's worse, because tons of toxic chemicals are also mixed with it". The industry has been highly dishonest for over two decades ... and they've been that way for a reason. The industry is dishonest because it has lots to hide. Only when they get caught with their carcinogenic pants down, do they get forced into admitting what's going on. Fortunately, legislation IS being introduced to make the process safer ... but it has been late in coming due to industry food dragging.
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It was used the entire time for oil and natural gas. At no time did the industry in the last 50 years not frack. About 25 years ago horizontal fracking was developed but there were major policy changes.

Repeal of the Powerplant and Industrial Fuel Use Act (1987)

In 1987 an act forcing utilities to build coal or nuclear plants instead of natural gas was repealed. The coal plant that provides power on my local grid was built only because of this act. The nuclear plant providing power to my local grid was also built because of this. We hope to close down the coal plant in the next 10 years but its a tough fight since "its paid for".

Well sure its not as glamorous as the mountain top removal, but now we have the reason demand was down. What about supply that the restrictions came from. Oh yeah, price controls making it unprofitable to invest were removed in 1989. And one more thing, the cap and trade of sulfure dioxide and nitrogen oxides was established in 1990. These three things made it profitable to greatly increase production of natural gas, and to pay for more expensive extraction methods. Now the question is do you think we should force new plants to be coal or nuclear and remove some of the coal protection measures established in 1990 to today

No Mountain top removal for coal mining and coal plants have been going on as long. A long time means these problems are not new. They are not new at all. Really once the first man was born, he started to pollute his environment. Its about trade offs.

The nastiest stuff is what the fracking brings up. Then again mother nature has always done hydrolyc fracking. The gas companies just studied what she was doing.

Some of it has, some has been allowed to seep from lower levels into the water from fracking. It doesn't mean the state and federal regulators shouldn't do more, but farmers with their pesticides and fertilizers are causing a giant dead zone in the gulf.

Hey, I live in a place with enough natural gas without fracking. The lights would all go out in california if it stopped though.

I'd rather get it regulated and use natural gas as a bridge. So what is it hill. Import fracked natural gas? Frack it ourselves and regulate. Switch to more coal and nuclear like Jimmy Carter wanted. Its not like you can get enough renewables up in the next 10 years to get rid of natural gas without more coal mining pollution. You remember those black lung photos, the mountain top removal, etc. I'm sure you may be rich enough to power yourself, I know I am, but what about your neighbors?

 

We're on the same page. Fracking - coal - nuke - the industries will always seek the most profitable methods of production, which always means 'on-the-cheap' ... minimal safeguards. Safety causes espense. All laws ... all regulations are written in blood. They put up stop signs after someone gets run over. Filtering coal plant exhaust happens after healthy folks begin to die early. Now we have to deal with the poisons of fracking. Laws are being written - but it's a constipated process.

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