2005 Prius 241,000 Miles Hybrid Battery Replacement Story

What sort of battery temps would you consider being problematic? I am watching the upper and lower battery sensor readouts, seeing ~ mid 40'sC in hilly terrain. It seems like they should have put something right in the middle of the pack.

 

Based on what I have read 100-125 F is normal. Im not sure what high limit would be.

 

Don't go over 60C/140F.

 

I've read through this thread with fascination as my Prius 2005 just crossed the 101,000 mile mark and died. Just like Zitter described: every blooming light came on, acceleration was a little limp, and mileage was down from a regular 50 around town to 47 for a few days before the death knell. I thought I had a low tire, that is how subtle the changes were.

That was 3 weeks ago. Toyota in Austin ordered a new hybrid battery saying that because I was so close to the 100,000 mile warranty that they would "work with me" and pay 1/2 of the cost of the new battery. Today I called as the battery was promised in 3 weeks and I hadn't heard anything. The parts department called the regional people who said that there are 750 some people on the backorder list for a hybrid battery, 320 some on their way to Ontario Canada. They said they had cancelled my back order and put me in as a referral -- not sure what that means. Is this tsunami related? Or Toyota skimping on the older models to sell new Priuses?

More importantly: Why did my battery die so young? My father bought this car in 2005 and it has been taken care of. Here are some theories:
-- extremely hot in Texas last summer. (90 plus days over 100F) My brother thinks that even sitting in the sun, turned off, the heat is too much for a Prius battery. (He lives in Olympia!)
-- a strange episode in September 2011, as the extreme Texas heat was lessening, but it was still hot, a friend drove us to the airport in our Prius and then returned to our house and parked the car on the street. Quite a few days later - 3, maybe 4 - a neighbor called me in Boston and said that the car was running! The doors were unlocked and the car was on. Apparently our friend did not press the button OFF sufficiently, didn't notice the car was on, and walked away, leaving the car going. This is pretty easy to do. Fortunately the airconditioning was not on. Could this do permanent damage to a battery?
--Or, theory 3. We drive to Colorado every summer and I've noticed that in the mountains, especially if the lights and wipers are going, the battery goes down to zip very fast..one red bar. Last summer as we were driving along it felt like the gas petal had been floored and the car had put itself in neutral. I pulled over to the side of the road and called Toyota. They said, oh, nothing. Just driving in the mountains and you've pulled the battery down so low that the auxilliary motor has kicked in. Hmm, what extra motor? There is no such thing but there must be some kind of override so that the car revs in a last ditch attempt to fill the battery. Seems like this would not be good for the battery over the long haul.

Well, that's my story. I admire Zitter's ingenuity and pluck to find a salvage battery but I figure that if I can get a new one for $2000 and figure out what killed the old one at such a tender age so that I can avoid the same problems, I should be able to put many more miles on this wonderful car. This is the very first thing that has ever gone wrong with the car in 101,000 miles. Everything else is original. I welcome your postmortem ideas. Thank you.

 

You should hear the fan come on. The sound will come from the back seat and the air blows out those little fins about shoulder height. Be sure to never block that vent with a blanket or a wide shouldered person! If you never hear it in TX I think you should get it checked. Batteries get hot here and that fan should kick on, especially late afternoons in the summer.

 

Hearing the fan is NOT a good sign. If you live in TX, then you need to be acutely aware of the effect of heat on your hybrid battery and take steps accordingly. Try to keep cabin interior as cool as possible and NEVER park the car with a full battery.

The replacement backorder list length is becoming ominous. There were 55K units produced in '04, 109K each in 05-06, and 185K in '07. We are starting to see failures in high mileage '07s. Junkyard batteries are becoming more difficult to find, and more expensive. Unless Toyota does something, this will only get worse.

 

I wish I could find some of seilerts' others posts but this one might help: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...-battery-replacement-story-2.html#post1497577. There definitely seems to be a correlation between early HV pack failure with heat and hills.

I would suggest parking in the shade, covered parking or in areas that receive sun for fewer hours of the day, esp. in the summer. Use a sunshade and maybe leave the windows open a crack. I eventually started doing that when I was working in CA.

Also, ohfiveprius, do you have pets or people that frequently ride in the back seat?

 

1. I find it hard to believe that if there are 750 North America backorders, that 320 are heading to Canada. The Canadian population is slightly more than 10% of the US population. There is no reason to believe that Prius is more popular in Canada (compared to the US), and certainly the average temperatures in Canada are lower than the average temperatures in the US.

2. Of your three theories, I would be inclined to say a combination of 1 and 3 are responsible for your battery's demise.

3. I've had traction batteries die on my 2001 Prius and 2006 HiHy (both replaced under warranty) so it doesn't surprise me to see these failures being reported now that the 2G Prius population is maturing.

 

Good points about Canada.

From http://media.toyota.ca/pr/tci/en/document/TCI_Month_End_Sales_Results_for_December_2011.pdf, Toyota sold a whopping 1581 Prius liftbacks and 553 Prius v's for all of 2011 in Canada.

From the chart at Toyota | December 2011 Sales Chart, in the Toyota sold 136K members of the Prius family (mostly liftbacks) for the same time period in the US.

 

so what your saying is that the older the car the sonner it wil have a HV batt failure?
at 55k with a 2004 and at 185k with a 07?

 

Seilerts was merely providing unit sales information: 55,000 Prius sold in the US for the 2004 model year, etc.

I think that traction battery failure will be positively correlated with several factors:

- battery age
- vehicle's odometer reading
- repeated exposure to high ambient temperatures
- repeated exposure to significant drain/recharge cycles due to driving on mountainous terrain

My 2004 also frequently shows one red bar when ascending mountain routes at freeway speeds and quickly ramps up to eight green bars on the downhill run. I'm surprised the traction battery hasn't died yet (the car has 125K+ miles, unsure what the odometer reading is since my daughter is driving that car now.)

 

Hi and thanks for thinking about this. I always leave the windows open a crack and use a sunshade but when it is blazing hot the inside of the car still gets very hot. I assumed that the hybrid battery was somewhere in the rear and not much affected by cabin temperatures. But it sounds like that is not true.

And I wondered whether parking in the shade would really have much effect? (Parking in the shade is a competitive sport here -- not enough trees.)

About pets and people in the back seat. Yes, I have a kid who always sits in the back seat but she knows about the vent and the fan and never blocks the vent. Pets? Rarely with a trip to the vet so I don't think it would be clogged with pet hair.

Is there a way to clean out that vent?

Also, based on my limited experience, I wish that Toyota would require some sort of battery health check around 95,000 miles. I think this failing battery would have shown up earlier, while under the 100,000 mile warranty. But despite all my questions about maintenance, recalls, whatnot, no one ever suggested getting the main battery checked, regularly... or at least in plenty of time to get in under the 100,000 mile mark for a replacement.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

Sorry if I led us astray here with part about the batteries headed for Ottowa. That is their destination, according to the parts guy here in Austin. I'm not sure why they are shipping to Canada first but from there they will go all over North America, including to Houston (a few) and then one hopefully to Austin for me.

The point was that there is a huge back order of batteries right now and very few leaving Japan where I assume they are made.

The list of people waiting for a replacement battery is very long -- and I agree with an earlier writer that the problem may only get worse as more of this generation of Prius batteries fail. It was heartening to know that Zitter's battery made it for 240,000 miles but I imagine more are like mine and die due to heat related ailments closer to 100,000 to 150,000.

 

Hi ohfive. Take a look at the photos in my reply (#31) here: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...ur-dirt-causing-major-battery-problems-4.html

It shows how to access the battery blower fan and inspect it for dirt and dust. It's a pretty easy job, it just requires the removal of the lining (mostly just clips off) on the right hand side of the rear hatch.

 

It would not help Toyota's financial outlook if they had a policy of actively looking for marginal traction batteries and funding their replacement under warranty. If your car displays no warning lights then the assumption is that all is well.

At some point the vehicle warranty expires. As owners, we must then bear the financial responsibility for repairs from that point forward. Some owners decide to trade or sell their vehicles prior to warranty expiration because they prefer not to face that obligation - but of course, frequent vehicle trading has a financial downside with regards to the depreciation hit that the owner absorbs.

 

Is there a write up anywhere on testing and reconditioning battery modules? my 2007 has been getting 35-40 mpg for the last 6 month(about 20000 miles). it has over 300k miles on it and always got over 50mpg then a gradual decline over the last 50000 miles to where it is now.
I would use the search feature, but it doesnt work with my phone.

 

An update here on the 2005 Prius with 101,000 miles and a dead hybrid battery in Texas. After 5 weeks of waiting and a parts department guy somehow taking us off the "wait list" and putting us on the "referral list" we got the battery and the dealership installed it. Same parts guy told me Toyota facing major major problem with battery supply. Thousands are waiting for a hybrid battery. He said over 500 waiting in KY. Five other Priuses waiting just at that dealership.

The cost: Toyota split the cost of both batteries (the regular little battery also failed apparently) $1668.98. I thought I could give you a break down but the invoice is pretty hard to comprehend: Labor $54.73; Parts 254.83, Misc Charge (goodwill) 1236.62; Tax 122.80. Total 1668.98. I give you this so you can weigh your options with picking one out of a junk yard, refurbishing cells, or going the dealer route.

A couple of follow up notes: there was concern about the fan being clogged as a possible reason for the main battery to overheat and die. Fan completely clean so that was not a factor. My guess is the cause of failure was a long long extra hot summer. I'm looking for a shady parking space.

Dealer said 3 times that there are no loaners or options to rent a car. Called main customer service for Toyota and they "investigated" for a day and then authorized a rental car at $30-40/day until the hybrid battery arrived. That really helped in week #5.