Another example of why Chevy will never really make it

If a blended PHV is a goal, I would think GM would be better off putting it in another model. One that is more family friendly in capacity. The hybrid minivan/crossover is still an open segment here.

The Cruze and Volt are the same platform. Unless they don't want to risk consumer confusion different hybrid types in a single model, or diluting the Volt's name with a cheap trim, a Cruze hybrid sounds redundant.

 

I agree.

A blended hybrid volt with smaller battery pack and rear bench seat seems like the easier option.

If gm wants to move a blended voltec phev from a current vehicle, I would go with the Equinox.

 

Hmm maybe a PHEV hybrid Malibu.. since the Malibu is what is being added to the Plant that makes the volt, it would feel right at home.

A PHEV cruze makes sense to me, as the low-end cousin of the Volt with out all the power, style or range.

I'll second the idea of a PHEV AWD though as that is were I see the biggest market need.

 

THe only difference with a cruze versus volt blended phev would be style. Power would likely be the same, I can't imagine they would make a blended phev slower. CD range would go down. But why not put it in the same package? This is one of the problems gm got into before, chevy, pontiac, buick all being almost the same car. Its a lack of focus.

It does make sense that gm has two pack size on a redesigned car, and that the smaller one be blended. The reason to do it in a cruze instead of volt body is to drop the price further, but I doubt costs will be significantly different. I'm not sure if the thinking might be that its hard to turn the volts buckets to a bench seat.

But I would not rule out some of that old gm thinking still in the works.

It should be relatively straightforward to add a mg to the rear axle for power and regen braking. A little more tricky in programming. I would think a platform with higher ground clearance might make sense.

 

I agree, the volt is already about the same as a cruze. Make a PHEV equinox.

 

This country used to have a good public transit system. GM bought it and dismantled it, city by city, so people would have to buy cars. A few cities resisted and escaped. But most did not. Now, yes, they sell busses, to cities that operate crappy systems where taking the bus takes five times as long to get anywhere as driving a car, so nobody uses public transit unless they cannot afford a car.

GM has been screwing this country for decades. The bailout was just one more in a long line of screwings. GM treats the U.S.A. like we were its private you-know-what.

 

Re: earlier posts we were discussing EPA Certification Fuel octane.
>>I was able to google an interesting presentation to CARB where the autos discuss current and proposed EPA/CARB test fuels.

If you go to Slide 11 (Back-Ups) they give the current EPA/CARB certification fuels disucssed in the above article. The EPA test fuel appears to be 93 RON Octane which is approx equal to 93-8 = 85 MON Octane which is approx. = 89 (R+M)/2 also known a Pump octane or AKI (anti-knock index). The spec says this is minimum allowable octane, could be higher I guess.

>>Thus it appears EPA is using a mid-range 89+ pump octane for MPG tests.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/leviii/meetings/071911/alliance.pdf

 

Do you have any links that actually discusses this? I have heard the same story with different boogeymen before so obviously someone is making stuff up.

 

Choose your poison.

GM fought intensely against hybrids for years, calling them a "stop gap" and heavily promoting fuel-cell vehicles. Remember how they were going to be the first to sell 100,000 of them, starting with a rollout in 2010.

GM then abruptly shifted over to Two-Mode, claiming that was the future, a design far superior to HSD. That turned out to be a major disappointment for them.

GM then changed to Volt, betting the farm yet again on something with a design that isn't even cost-effective, not to mention coming up short on efficiency goals.

It's been quite mess... with still nothing competitive.
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy]General Motors streetcar conspiracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

Who really cares about a companies past directional changes? When one swings for the fences, sometimes you strike out. We need some radical change to reduce oil consumption, and they tried. Its better than bunting like the PHV.


The Volt may have come up a little short compared to their initial efficiency goals, but overall for most drivers its still the most efficient car with a gas engine. Now that we are starting to see real data from Prius PHV, e.g.

One can see the Volt's EREV design is greatly reducing the driver's gas usage. All of the above would be in the bottom 20% compared to voltstats.net and the average is in the bottom 10%.

You can disparage the company's past decisions but the Volt is an exceptional vehicle. It has exceed my expectations and while not a match to everyones needs (because of the 4 seats), it IS competitive and for many owners its TCO is less than the Prius PHV. It may not be cheap, but quality innovations rarely start out cheaper.

 

Yeah, hybrid mode...

 

I REMEMBER the streetcar system in Los Angeles. For many years I blamed Mayor Yorty for dismantling it. Then I learned it was GM. Of course, they probably bribed Yorty, but of that I have no knowledge, just the assumption that corruption was involved.

 

So that says a bunch of companies were involved which explains why the boogeyman differs depending on who is telling the story. I love that they had roger rabbit in there. That was a great movie. From the wiki it doesn't say what proportion of funds came from which company which is a shame.

The following myths do kind of ruin the overall conspiracy.

So basically it sounds like in the era of cheap oil which extended through most of the time from 1910-1970 people just wanted to drive cars and not use electric railcars. I was surprised Portland wasn't mentioned don't they have a pretty good system? Or maybe it was installed more recently. I know salt lake has a new rail system that has a lot of ridership now as well, but it is fairly limited in scope.

I thought this was interesting too when I looked it up. It adds some other reasons besides oil prices.

 

Sx- Thank god they missed the electric trolley in Pgh, still runs to the South Hills by my Mom's house. I used it to commute into the Burg all the time when I was there. But I think the trolley system (massive at one time) was just out-dated.

 

I never have been over there, but I do ride the busses often.

What annoys me is that there was a rule that would not allow any preference for railed travel to be considered for public funding of transit.

I would much prefer to ride on a subway than a bus since the subway doesn't have to wait on traffic. Same for above ground rail if it gets right of way.

 

Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And sure enough, Volt has followed Two-Mode history remarkably close.

The question now is how Volt will break out of its niche into the mainstream, soon.
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In sparing - they call that, "Leading with your Chin"

Will the Volt make it? Lower price would make a difference ... I don't think anyone would doubt that. The question then becomes "How much less". According to THIS - The Volt has to cost the same as a Cruz - ... even if gas were $10/gallon:

EV WORLD CURRENTS: Gasoline Prices: What's the Magic Number?

And the read goes on to comment that unless we make a gargantuan "moon shot" type effort to get alternate transportation down as cheep as ICE, most will never consider alternate transportation. That's a pretty depressing thought.

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GM doesn't sell buses to my knowledge. Bus manufacturers use the hybrid drive system from Allison, and I think GM sold Allison a couple of years ago.

 

I'm not sure what lessons you learned, but IMHO the volt has different challenges than two-mode, and they are not repeating those mistakes.
Two-Mode Hybrid System: GM's Larry Nitz on Lessons Learned

Honda probably made the biggest mistakes. It did get number 1 correct, but picked the wrong segment for number 3. Its second tries hybrid civic and accord got number 1 wrong. The second tries also did not have a capable enough system, the opposite of the problem with gms.