Does getting a fuel efficient Prius make you drive more?

sorry, error

 

It just makes me glad I am not paying for 18 mpg like I was when I was driving the 4Runner........ tho I still have the old girl, she hauls construction stuff that would kill the Prius!

 

Yep.

From your link:

 

As I posted in the original 'drive more' thread - you drive what every you have - that makes the most economical sense. Unless you're talking about exotics ... classics ... stolen cars ... or other non-standard situations, no one gets out of their chair and thinks, "hey, I gotta Prius ... I might as well go drive around, because I got nothing better to do".

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Not in my case - I hate driving and do as little as possible - unfortunately with younger kids I do still drive quite a bit. Once the kids are out of the house I'd love to sell the house in the burbs along with my car and move into the city.

 

Nothing's changed for me. I still the same as I've been driving before I bought the Prius.

 

The prius, being less fun to drive than my last car, I actually am driving a little less. I am probably an outlier though, as the price of gasoline never reduced or increased my driving.

 

I drive where my work takes me. For the last 10 years that has been about 30,000 miles a year. Today my Prius is 3 years old, it has 91,000 miles on it.

 

It is still more efficient even if more driving is occurring, because more output for the same amount of energy is being used.

 

True, but the question was whether overall consumption decreases, and by how much.

The effect of supply/demand is widely accepted in a market economy, yes ?
Increased supplies drop prices, which tends to increase demand.

Efficiency has the effect of increasing supply, so finding that demand goes up should not flabbergast anybody.

 

I think you misunderstand the idea of taxing gas savings.

The idea is oil is a scarce commodity that is running out. If the goal is to reduce oil use, then doubling fuel economy and doubling miles will consume exactly the same amount. This is not a desired for outcome. If this happens raising cafe standards does nothing to decrease oil use.

Getting higher fuel economy is only partially increases miles driven, and we can see that gasoline use has been falling since 2004. This has also coincided with higher prices for oil, but more miles is a rebound effect partially offsetting the efficiency gain. But to accelerate the gains the government can introduce a tax making these miles more expensive. This means that those decreasing oil use the most will be taxed the least. Ideas for these policies are routed in correcting problems with the invisible hand of a free market that does not accurately price in the cost of oil. For the taxes to work correctly they should offset other taxes, not just get spent for other stuff For the individual this does nothing, but it should improve use of a scarce resource for the group.

 

Efficiency gains like the Prius have been saving individuals money for a long time now, but conservatism has impeded rational market behavior. Taxes on consumption will help people think a bit clearer.

 

Fuel isn't the only cost of driving, and usually not even the major cost. If the amount of driving people do is limited only by cost, then slashing fuel costs in half without similarly slashing the other costs means that driving distance cannot double before the driving budget is exhausted.

Available time is also a major driving limiter, and except for a few special folks with HOV passes in a few locations, a Prius won't get there any faster than a guzzler.

In my household, the Prius drives more miles than the other two cars combined. The mileage shift from guzzler to sipper was larger than I expected. But the total annual household miles driven is unchanged.

 

I agree. And I question whether the so-called rebound effect really does wipe out overall consumption decreases anyway (I don't really buy it).
Either way, it's still more productive.

 

I can only assume that one of the underlying presumptions or premises you are advocating is that the average person is not a rational market actor???

This would be antithetical to my understanding of how the free market works.

 

When ideology fails, arithmetic saves the day:

- A reliable modern car is good for about a 250k miles lifetime
- Lifetime fuel costs are 3 - 4 dollars a gallon in the US
- Prius at 50 mpg consumes 5000 gallons of fuel that costs 15000 - 20000
USD
- A competing 25 mpg car spends 30,000 - 40,000 USD on fuel
- A competing 37.5 mpg car spends 22,500 - 30,000 USD on fuel

So the efficiency gains are worth as little as $7,500, or as much as $20,000 dollars given the different cars and future fuel costs. Imagine if at the time of purchase those people who bought the 25 mpg cars were offered the Prius for FREE, with the understanding that they would pay fuel costs equal to the car they were ready to buy.

In the US, 2% of auto sales are Prius, a couple percent are folks who actually require a vehicle for tasks the Prius cannot perform, and the other 90+ percent of buyers are listening to commercials.

 

Nothing to buy here, just realize that decreases in consumption from efficiency gains are likely and often less than the efficiency gain would imply.

 

No, the rebound effect does not get rid of even a large percentage of the savings. But, rebound effect without higher gas prices mean that cafe standards will not be that effective.

This is from the OP link

One think we do know though, during gas price spikes consumption is reduced. With the rebound effect prius drivers will likely not reduce their consumption

 

I HAVE noticed what your are saying is true for us, too. "She-who-must-be-obeyed" is constantly wanting to use the EV, rather than her hybrid-SUV-30mpg. After a year of EV driving, I'd normally think the odometer would reflect about 10,000 miles. Instead, it's about 13,000 miles. The extra 3,000 miles over the last 12 months only saves about 100 gallons of hybrid-SUV fuel ... or in our area ... about $450 a year ... $8/week.

 

I just turned 3,000 miles in my 2012 that I just purchased on March 3rd.

I hope this trend does not continue or I'll have 32,000 on it by the end of the year.