Congratulations Bob Wilson!! you have won

According to the tonight's ABC national news, Bob has lost -- tomorrow's announcement will be yet another delay.

I hope this report is wrong.

 

From the article:

 

I hope it's right. The analysis I saw projected a cost per life save at around $10,000,000+. That money could be used to save many more lives by applying it to other automotive safety problems, or even more by improving driver licensing standards. Saving lives is a worthy goal, but it can be done more efficiently than cultivating this pet rock.

Backup Camera Rule With $2.7 Billion Cost Delayed Again by U.S. - Businessweek

Government Wants Delay of Backup Camera Requirement - KickingTires

Follow the money and you should be able to find out who the bought and paid for congresscritters are.

 

Government Backs Up On Rearview Car Cameras : NPR (which I heard thanks to the NPR News app) says

The story also links to a video at

.

Moral of the story is that people could be looking at all their mirrors and out the window while backing up but forget to look behind the vehicle before getting in and backing out. Or, they could do all that and some kid (not necessarily theirs) could still end up behind them, if they're too slow or the kid's too fast...

 

I was 'baby-sitting' a database restore so it has been awhile since I last checked-in only to find this thread. I'd like to share some thoughts before I take another nap then on Friday, I plan to drive down to a canard airplane fly-in but that is another topic for another day.

I bought a combination, Blue-tooth, rear-view camera, and GPS for my 2003 Prius a couple of years ago:

A little pricey, the Blue-tooth went out but two-out-of-three isn't bad. But I have some lesson's learned about the camera which AutoLine Daily also observed:

• exterior lense often obscures - the problem is rain, mist, and grime can make the optics go blurred or obscured. A better mount would be inside the car through the defroster part of the rear glass. Drivers are more likely to keep the rear glass clean than scamper about trying to find a small and obscure lense to clean. Rain-X is your friend.
• field of view wrong - my horizontal mount on the rear trunk wastes half of the screen looking at the sky. I don't need a camera to be redundant for the rear view mirror but to cover the blind spots the mirror will never see. It needs to be mounted at the highest possible location inside the rear glass and pointed down so the top of the screen is the horizon. This will give maximum coverage of small folks and the cars on either side without wasting half of the pixels 'showing the sky.'

The NHTSA announcement is not very precise about the reason but if it is to come up with a better set of specification that fix these problems, I'm all for it.

The April 13, 2008 "Backover and Non-Crash Events Special Crash Investigations" (810954) is a sobering report. In particular, "2005 Cadillac Escalade, Residential area, Backing out of driveway, 7-year-old male on sidewalk "skipping" home from school, fatal injuries." The point of impact at the rear bumper included the "Vehicle equipped with Ultrasonic Rear Parking Assist (URPA)" that was "Turned off prior to incident."

A 'parking assist' might not be considered a backup safety system. In this case, the driver was leaving their driveway, not trying to park.

BTW, I also have a backup LED light that beeps OUTSIDE the cabin:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_mirror_050.mp4
Curiously, I've noticed at least one pedestrian who ignored the backup beep thinking they have the 'right away' over a 3,000 lb car whose driver may not see them through the sheet metal and other traffic distractions.

Bob Wilson

 

BWilson4Web – Greetings, stranger. I agree that a Back-Up Video Camera, “Granny/Toddler Cam†is a “Must-Have Safety Feature†in all the Kammback-esque Prius cars and other cars that have obscured, very poor rearward Blind Spot visibility. Having Back-Up Cameras in my Prius cars has saved me from inadvertently backing into wandering pedestrians and unattended sprinting toddlers numerous times.

I am a firm believer in and advocate of the Back-Up Video Camera as being a “Must-Have Safety Feature†function in cars/trucks with poor rearward Blind Spot visibility. I would not purchase a Kammback’ed car (i.e. Prius, Prius v, Prius c or Prius Plug-In) without having a functioning Back-Up “Granny/Toddler†Cam installed in it. However, making a Back-Up Cam a government-mandated feature goes against my politics.

I am extra alert at crosswalks and parking lots for shopping cart pushing Grannies, sprinting errant toddlers and cell phone talking adults. I have had more than a couple “close†calls due to the inherent blind spots and stealthiness of the Prius car. So far, no notches have been carved on my steering wheel.

Regarding you “I also have a backup LED light that beeps OUTSIDE the cabin:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_mirror_050.mp4
Curiously, I've noticed at least one pedestrian who ignored the backup beep thinking they have the 'right away' over a 3,000 lb car whose driver may not see them through the sheet metal and other traffic distractions.†I believe some “smart†people do “dumb†things, and some “dumb†people do “even mo’ dumber†things. I regularly have some person walking up towards and across the rear of my car in the grocery store parking lot --- who was still some distance away when they clearly saw my Back–Up Lights illuminate and heard the VPNS Warning as I began rolling out of the parking spot --- but who kept walking across the rear of my car into the view of my Back-Up Camera rather than to briefly stop or to walk around my already rolling car to let me finish backing up.

No VPNS Safety Device or Back-Up Cam is going to protect against a person with such an “I dare you to hit me†mentality, whether they be sighted or not. The MFD Monitor Back-Up Cam view in my Prius permits me and has permitted me to see these “Chickie Run†yokels pop into the field of view of the “Granny/Toddler Cam†so I could make an emergency “I Brake For Idiots†maneuver.

In the General Maritime Rules Of The Road, the more maneuverable vessel is required to give way to the less maneuverable vessel. The U.S. pedestrian culture “Right Of Way Rules Of The Road,†with respect to Pedestrians versus an “over a 3,000 lb car whose driver may not see them through the sheet metal and other traffic distractions†in mall and grocery store parking lots; are assbackwards from these logical rules.

In these parking lot environments were other parked cars add to the “driver blindness problem†and obscuration , the 1-2 MPH± more maneuverable walking person with good forward visibility usually do not give courteous way and step out of the way and walk around the 1-2 MPH± much less maneuverable Car/Truck backing up with obscured rearward visibility.

Keep The Faith, Brer Bob. lane:

 

I'm always amazed how stupid people are -- they will walk directly behind you when you are backing up ... say at the grocery store.

I wanted the back-up camera on the Prius because of the blind spots -- some cars have them and others do not ... so the value of the camera is not universal. What I do see is people using the camera to back up when they should be looking.

On larger cars and many SUV's having the park assist is a real help.


The camera should be used as an additional tool -- not the only one.


If you look at the vast number of cars sold the majority don't contain a screen that is capable of showing video -- so that will need to be installed plus the camera and related electronics.

 

MY problem with this is that if you are looking at a small screen, you are not looking at what's behind you at all, because children don't usually stand behind a moving vehicle, they run behind it from out of the picture so camera, or not... children are still going to get run over if people don't slow it down, and look side to side as well as back multiple times while backing up.

 

Your concern is valid, but the argument is fallacious. Using the same argument, we should black out the rear window so that people will use the side mirrors and not be distracted by the view.

The backup camera is another data point; it augments but does not replace the windows, mirrors, and turning your head.

The backup camera gives a wider field of view than the back window or mirror, particularly when backing out between cars. Backup cameras are mounted at the rear of the vehicle, where they are not occulted by adjacent obstacles, and the nearly 180° view allows the driver to see approaching hazards, such as running children and cars. You don't get this view by turning your head or using mirrors.

Tom

 

I can imagine how it would be advantageous to have the cameras installed for backing out of parking spots where you are between two other vehicles, and essentially blind other than out the back glass.

I have one more point I forgot to mention, that in combination with all other implemented safety features and procedures would cut down significantly on backing accidents.

Backing up should be done as little as possible for obvious reasons. This is why when new drivers are taught to drive, they need to be told to back into every parking space possible for 2 reasons.

1 being the fact that pulling out forwards from any given spot is the preferred method since cars drive forwards the majority of the time and this is the most familiar to everyone as it provides the best possible view of whats in front of the part of the vehicle that is most likely going to make impact.

2 (despite the sound of it) Eevasive driving techniques should be applied when parking as well. Backing into a space, to allow yourself to pull forwards out of it is simply the best way to park. This is actually taught in the drivers education course for new drivers as far as I know, and in all of the safety driving classes I have ever attended at any large corporation. You are already facing the direction you'd like to go, the front of the car is shorter than the rear in most cases, and you will see what's past the obstacles to the sides of you much quicker than if you have to back out of a space. In the event of an emergency, hence the term "evasive" a driver must be able to enter a vehicle, put it in drive and simply go to avoid certain dangers.

I know somebody will say "it takes too long to back up into a space, I hate waiting for people in parking lots to reverse park it holds up traffic."

My only question to you would then be, isn't that extra 5 seconds worth it to protect the life of a child, an adult, a pet, or just to avoid a costly insurance claim?

With that being said, install the cameras and teach people to back INTO spaces, not out of them.

 

I believe that any device that helps you avoid an unfortunate situation is a good idea, but, like a lot of good ideas it can be taken to a level that is a bit too far. A camera or sensors are a good ideas but as others have stated, are not the whole solution. Unfortunately in this gadgetized world there are way too many things to grab your attention (who hasn't watch the pixel board signs for a few too many seconds while driving?) The trend is for the task of driving to become less and less prioritized to the point of almost happening in the background, this is very bad and is, in my opinion, and confirmed by many studies to be one of the root causes of many accidents. Unfortunately, you can't fix human nature - the old saying is common sense isn't very common. On the other side of the coin, pedestrians are just as distracted by cellphones or screaming kids, there is no easy answer.

I would like to see a camera system with a split screen to look up and down the lanes at the supermarket as well as behind the car, heck, one in front to see around snow banks in winter would be a good idea in this neck of the woods. The best answer I can suggest is : Be alert! - The world needs more lerts.

Thumbs up Bob!

 

Not WAS ... he still IS!! Rumors of his passing have been greatly exagerated.

For those who weren't around in Bob's prime ... experiencing all the detail of his graphs . . . . I'm positive THIS is one of his highly helpful & info filled examples:








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Nice to see ya Back Bob!
When Bob Post Anything I READ.

 

Back up cameras, on a Prius or any other car, are neat gadgets, not life savers. Not to the point of mandating them.

If people aren't using their mirrors or, you know, turning their heads to actually look around them, then what says they will look at the little display screen? Nothing.

The cameras do not see as much as actually looking around does. That camera could create tunnel vision and could build an expectation based on tunnel vision.

How did you run over little Johnny?
He wasn't on the camera.
Did you look?
I looked at the camera.
Did you look around you?
I have a camera. He wasn't on the camera.

It could build a dangerous dependency and lack of sense of accountability. When the camera goes out, little Johnny gets run over again. Couldn't see behind me. Camera was out. Not my fault. See? Equipment failed. I couldn't do what I was supposed to and would have done before I had the camera because now I'm dependent. And since it was the equipments fault, I'm ok. No worries. The camera's in trouble. Stupid camera. Ran over little Johnny, it did.

And we're not supposed to put things behind our cars. Not with or without a camera. Oh, that's fine right there. If I forget to move it before I leave, I'll see it on the camera before I run it over. Sounds silly? You can bet book someone will do it and run it smooth over.

It isn't lack of cameras. It's lack of watching where we're going.

 

I don't really care one way or the other about mandating them, but I disagree with some of what you say; the camera provides far more visibility of certain areas than I can get from looking around. It has an extremely wide field of view. It can help me see cars and pedestrians approaching from the side as I back out next to a much larger vehicle, for example. I can see almost the full bumper with it.

Not everything is visible; due to its wide angle of view, it's hard to see distant but rapidly-moving things (say a car or biker). And if you're turning, it's still possible to hit something on the inside of the turn.

There are thousands of improvements we've made over the years that, in general, improve safety, but also give people a sense of better security that may or may not be deserved. Would you get rid of stop lights, ABS brakes, airbags, traction control, paved roads, lane markings, guardrails, reflective signs, halogen/HID/LED headlights, snow tires, power steering, reflectors, turn signals, etc. etc. etc...

Safety improvements are welcome, as is revoking the driving license of any moron who relies solely on them for protection.

 

Quoted for truth.

My Prius -happened- to come with a backup camera. I don't think I've used it at all, except to show off to still-in-college friends who are still driving around in beaters.

I tried parking with it a couple times and it completely screwed me up every time. I just went back to looking out my windows.

And in any case, half the time the camera doesn't turn on (probably having something to do with me going immediately into EV-mode 90% of the time).

When it breaks, I don't plan on getting it fixed, because I simply don't use it.

And I can foresee quite a few of the miscellaneous Northeastern states and their mandatory yearly inspections jumping in on the "This car isn't road worthy, your backup camera doesn't work, now get it fixed for x number of hundreds of dollars..." spiel.


No amount of gadgetry, airbags, radar sensors, or electronic vehicle traction controls can compensate for the maniac behind the wheel.

 

Bob,

I know I speak for many others on PC that you have been missed. I am not a big poster here but I am a very regular reader and I have helped others when I can. I always appreciated your unique viewpoint and I hope you will frequent PC much more often. You make a difference.

Tom

 

It isn't designed to assist with parking anyway. I'd never use it for that purpose as you can't really accurately judge distance that way.

The only purpose is to uncover hidden obstacles that you couldn't otherwise see using your head.

 

This is patently false for the Prius rear camera system, which provides a nearly 180° field of view. You can see the ground below the bumper, and in both directions behind the car. There is no way for a seated driver to do the same, short of stopping the car, getting out, and walking to the back. This is the very opposite of tunnel vision.

Cameras do have their limits: the wide angle view makes objects look farther away, and they won't show you objects forward of the rear bumper. That's why cars have mirrors and drivers have heads that turn.

Tom