Prius Costs vs Jetta TDI Costs?

TDI can not touch Prius even on the highway. My commute is mostly highway and I travel 65-75 MPH for 80% of the miles. The rest are on the highway too but in traffic congestion. I average about 52 MPG in the summer and about 49 MPG in the winter.

 

Although a little dated, this is the only comparison chart I have:


If you are interested in the 1.5L, NHW20 Prius, Edmunds got this:



GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

 

Bob Wilson; the PC resident Prius test engineer has tracked this several times. you will be looking at about 47 mpg give or take a few.

he has posted several spreadsheets displaying actual data on his Pri's.

since i dont drive that fast, i am not sure of the exact figure, but i do remember the "60/60" rule which is drive 60 mph on flat calm dry summer day and get 60 mpg.

 

You will have to add to that total cost of break changes to WV Yetta because on Prius you do not change breaks that often (from what I have read from other Prius owners ) and also transmission oil is changed after 100000 MI on Prius.
I get on my 2010 Prius 55-58 MPG mostly highway and my record is 60.2 MPG

 

LOL, someone else had a 60k TDI fire. Ours was due to the dealer over tightening the alternator belt and my wife waiting four days to tell me about the noise. Other than that our TDI was a perfect car that always put a smile on my face.

If you want to have fun "driving" the car, get the TDI. Economics dictate a Prius, once the current shortage is over. FWIW, I am a TDI fan and a high performance car junkie. I love the relaxed commute in the Prius and look forward to driving it every day but it does not have the pseudo sports car soul of a TDI.

 

The TDI is a great car, but the Prius is a better at the price. If the TDI was $4K cheaper, I would have jumped on it. I drive 75mph on the highway, average 42-45mpg

 

Judging by OP's information under the avatar he has made his choice, but in case not or for others this thread is good, minus the tpfun trolling.

 

My mileage varies from 45 to 50 on the highway...at mostly 75mph.

The TDI "may" get a little bit better mileage, but in this area diesel is also about 15-percent more expensive than gas. Yer call...

FWIW...I was tinkering with the idea of illuminating the "change owner" light on my truck about six months ago (those thoughts died of loneliness) and I considered a J-TDI. Great build quality! The interior is an order of magnitude better than the G3, and the TDI is loads more fun to drive. So is a Z06 Corvette for that matter-----but that doesn’t make it a sound choice for a commuting car!
However (comma!) I looked into the maintenance costs, lurked on a TDI forum (can't remember which one---but you'd be surprised how much you can learn that way )
and consulted several import mechanics. I did some quick arithmetic gymnastics and very quickly determined that for several reasons the TDI would not be a wise choice for me.
I'm not a Prius cheerleader. I have 9000 miles in type (G3-II) because my company uses them as a $25,000 placard to affix a "Green Technology" sticker to.
This means that while I have a little stick time in this car. I don't have much of a reason to say that it's better or worse than it really is...for my needs.

If you're looking for a commuting car, and since you drive some 33K mikes just to get to work and back per year, there's really no comparison. Even at today's inflated Prius prices, you're going to be better off in the G3 even if you don't suffer some cataclysmic TDI failure---especially if you're going to be keeping the car for more than 5 years. Toyota has a bigger dealer footprint in the US. Maintenance is faaaar cheaper (and easier) for the G3. Gas is cheaper than diesel, and the G3 gets almost as good highway mileage as the J-TDI.

That's just my take.

Good luck with your decision!

 

Tarusse1

I posted a thread exactly like this relating to the comparison between the VW Golf TDI and the Prius. I drive 140mi rnd trip to work and back. Search back and you'll find this tread and answers to many of your questions.

I did a lot of research, spoke to the service depts of toyota and VW and read all the great info I received from that thread and from a similar one on TDI forum.

I have always driven a manual trans and loved the VW TDI. I was leaning that way until I took a very close look at expected maintenance costs and projected reliability.

I have had my Prius lll for a month now...I'm getting 57mpg city/hwy combined. Expected maintenance costs are very low. No timing belts, alternator, fuel issues, and less frequent changing of brakes.
Read the thread on Golf TDI vs Prius on this forum.

In my opinion the Golf TDI is an excellent car. You will not get the same mileage and you will pay more in maintenance costs. There may be some issues relating to the use of diesel fuel....you have to purchase it where they sell it a lot....if anyone puts reg gas in there by accident you are in trouble....not easy to do because the nozzles are different but not impossible....mechanics are not generally familiar w/ working on the new clean diesel engines....hard to find ones who know what they are doing and VW will charge a lot of money to work on them. A lot of people in the TDI forum learned how to work on their own cars, but I'm not likely to be changing my own belts and brakes...

The TDI engines are built to last 250k miles plus....but people have been writing in here w/ high mileage on their Priusus as well w/ good reports. The prius does not handle like the TDI but some sports card owners here are happy with the Prius in that it gives them what they want out if it. I can say that I do miss the fun of driving the manual but I have no doubt I made the right choice. The prius gets amazing mileage on the hwy or city...has more storage space and back seat room than the golf and will save me money in gas savings and maintenance savings.

2011 VW golf gets good grades for reliability but it's new....there is really not a lot to go by....look at VW's history w/ reliablity.....not good. The new TDI's may be different but I don't believe there is enough data yet to assure this.

Good luck w/ your choice.

Mark C

 

I have built some Gas Calculators to compare the total cost of the cars after a number of miles Gas cost + Car cost.
You can find them here GAS Calculators

 

As others here have pointed out many people who don't own a Prius don't understand the whole total cost of ownership thing. The Prius has NO belts under the hood,,,NO timing belt to change or fail. This eliminates ALOT of maintenance costs,, and greatly increases reliability. Overall it's just a very easy and inexpensive, hassle free car to own. Oh,,,, and in Calif.,, I love the fact that I don't have to ever get my Prius smogged either. There are just sooooo many advantages to owning a Prius besides the stellar fuel economy. And I love being able to run my A/C without the engine idling. Once you actually own and live with a Prius awhile you"ll actually find many many little things that are better than a conventional internal combustion engine car. And resale value??? Go try to find a used one in good condition at a good price and you"ll find out just how good resale value is. Right now I can sell my 2008 lvl3 Prius with 59K on it for the same price I paid 2 1/2 yrs ago when it only had 15k on it!! How many cars can you do that with????

 

Oh my God !!! I've been considering a TDI recently to go with the Prius, so I just spent about 20 minutes reading some posts at tdiclub.com.

That was all it took to convince me to NEVER ..... EVER ..... own one of those things. The amount of maintenance and problems those things have is mind-boggling. Now I'm sure they're not all a disaster, but if they're HALF the disaster that those posts indicate ... they're not for me. If you can't work on your own car ... you better forget a TDI.

REV

 

I don't think you have the heart of a TDI owner.

Those guys *want* their cars to break, so they can do some serious wrenching

 

Just to add my 2 cents into this discussion.

I feel lifecycle costs for the two are likely to be very similar. The TDI will need a timing belt every 100 or 120k? at about 1k, give or take. The Prius will not have a timing belt, but it will have the traction battery that will likely need replacement by around 200k-- and this will be more expensive than the two timing belt jobs combined. Once you add up the other routine items, differences in fuel costs, etc-- they are likely to be extremely similar.

If I were to do it again, I would just buy a TDI.

Seriously, I used to have that mentality when I had my old Saturn. I actually looked forward to stuff breaking.

The TDI crowd doesn't seem to mind when things break, it's a routine occurrence to them.

 

My feelings are in a spreadsheet: my maintenance costs since 2004.

The timing belt costs are expected, battery replacement at 200k is far from 'likely.'

You must be joking

 

1) An individual's repair costs may vary. My statement that both systems are likely to yield similar ownership/lifecycle costs was made based on the premise of understanding the big picture weaknesses of each design.

2) I would not say that a battery replacement is not likely by 200k. The Toyota shop fore mans and the independent hybrid garage I've used have all agreed that battery failure is quite likely in the 200-250k range. A co-worker's sister just had her 05's battery die at 230k. If you look in the Gen II Problems and Maint sections, you'll notice that there seems to be an upward spike in the number of failures in the recent months, nearly all before 250k.

3) Other routine items include 12v battery replacement, which is likely needed more frequently and at a higher cost than the TDI. The average owner will not be looking for an Optima, they will be getting another OEM battery.

Like I said before, if you consider the operating costs for both setups, they are likely to be quite similar for an individual who keeps the car for 250-300k. Neither design is vastly superior and lower in operating costs than the other.

 

Little doubt traction battery replacement will 250k > 200k > 150k > 100k miles cars, but that does not make replacement in 200k miles cars likely.

Likely requires > 50% prevalence for the group under study.

Many (most?) of the traction battery failures are a single module -- a $30 part. Compare *that* to TDI fuel injection systems and transmissions LOL

Hell, just spend a minute over at CR looking at Prius vs TDI reliability. If reliability costs was my only concern, I would buy *any* mainstream model over a TDI

 

Obviously it is impossible to predict the exact mileage range in which failure will occur, but if you plan to keep a Prius for 250-300k, there is a good chance that a replacement will be needed at some point during your ownership.

The single module being the issue is true, but it is not relevant to the average owner. Heck, I don't think most people on this forum would bother replacing the single module themselves. Point is, you will be spending 2-3k for a new or refurbished traction battery during the time period and this will add to the TCO.

Transmissions wear out on any car, and Prii with 200-300k will likely need a new transmission as well. No different with the TDI there.

Luscious Garage | Blog | Gen 2 Prius (2004-2009) Transmission Failure, P0AA6, P0A92, P0A7A

 

^^ You are welcome to your feelings, but try not to confuse them with facts. The facts thus far in the Prius experience is that the car (as a fleet average) is the cheapest to maintain and repair of any car on the road save perhaps the Corolla/Camry or Civic/Accord.

There is not enough data to say for 250+ k mile cars, but the trends are great.

There you go, again. LIKELY MEANS > 50% PROBABILITY. Show the data with statistical analysis, or stop spewing FUD. A sister of a friend is not adequate data.

Look at a picture of a DSG, and a picture of an HSD. I suspect HSD failure approximates M/G2 failure rates; the planetary gearset is as rock solid as an axle differential.

Oh, and definitely read this thread from a tdi forum. Very educational. $1000 a year for maintenance and repairs in cars way under 200k miles sounds about ballpark. Contrast that to my $1350 spent over 8 years and 140k miles come October. Then add in about 30-50% more fuel costs, and we are back to my earlier question: You *are* kidding, right ?

 

From that TDI forum there's a LOT more to be concerned about than transmissions and injectors .... there's fuel filters every 30K, VERY expensive oil changes every 10K, regular intake cleaning, injector cleaning, glow plugs, cats, and serious sensor issues, not to mention ANY of the non-drive-train related VW failures like window switches, locks, electrical gremlins, climate control issues, and brake pads and rotors about 3 times more often as Prii, etc, etc.

If you don't believe me ... go to www.tdiclub.com and read for a few minutes. I agree that a lot of it is typical user-doable maintenance, and I'm real good at researching and diagnosing stuff like that ... but this is really over the top. By the way ... from what they say over there, timing belts are WAY more frequent than 100-120K ... more like 60-80K intervals from what I read.

And yes ... CR ... who I trust ... because it has exactly mirrorred my auto experiences, rates the VW TDI cars as black circles for reliability, and the Prii as red circles with a dot .... you can guess what those symbols mean.

All this said ... I'm going to go drive a used one that's on sale locally, just to see how the older ones perform. I'm looking at a 2003, which I understand was one of the very best years for reliability and fuel mileage. Doubt I'll buy it, but just want to see what all the hubbub is about. One thing also to never do .... is buy a VW TDI with an automatic transmission, at least according to the research I've done. They just don't last.


REV