No one ever said a peep about "early adopters" until after things started going bad, which is precisely why I asked the question prior to that. All along, Volt had been presented as a mainstream contender right out the shoot. Nothing would need to be modified, simply just ramp up production in the second year. The second generation talk is fallout, not part of the plan. That's due to the way you portray the upgrade. It's not a fix. Even with Prius at it's worse, it still delivers higher efficiency than any non-hybrid under the same conditions. It also improves efficiency on longer drivers, something Volt owners consistently gloss over. .
All, while it's very interesting to read all of the back and forth about the PiP and the Volt, to me the TOTALLY cool thing is that we actually do have several choices...finally! And it's only going to get better. There are always (and have always) been aspects of vehicles that better fit some folks over others and the Volt and PiP are no different. I actually like things about both of the vehicles and am excited whenever I see either one driving around town (yes, even here in Kerrville, Texas...I've seen both)...very cool! Thanks to everyone for contributing to the discussion!
Volt will use less gas, no doubt. The question is how many gallons less for how many kWh more. Electricity is cheap but upstream emission is high. If the objective is to use less gas, Volt is the winner. If the objective is to lower carbon emission, Prius PHV is the winner. If the objective is the total energy efficiency, Prius PHV is again the winner. You'll also have to consider the size difference, price and driving experience. Then, there is the number of times people recharge a day. For someone like gwmort's driving and recharging pattern, Prius PHV would cover 50% with EV. Volt covers 85%. That extra 35% requires a much bigger battery pack along with the compromises that come with it.
The Volt is perfect for some people & the Prius PHV is perfect for others. For me, it's a wash between the two when I look at them just in terms of my commute. When I factor in other things in my life, the PiP ends up getting the nod. If I really wanted to maximize my gas savings, I'd get a Leaf (assuming I can charge at work) or some other BEV. Different cars exist for different needs and different tastes. While I'd love to drive a Ferrari, I can't see ever owning one, and not just because of the high cost. The car would make little sense for me to have. It's not practical for my lifestyle. I also can't imagine owning a pickup truck, because, again, it's not practical for my lifestyle. I can accomplish 90% of the same tasks with our mini-van, and the other 10% I don't need to begin with. The Volt vs. PiP arguments remind me a bit of the Prius vs. regular car arguments that used to come up. People bagged on the Prius' unproven technology, the fears that you would have to replace the battery pack after just a few short years, the so called hybrid premium you had to pay, the smugness of Prius drivers, blah blah. Now the tables seem to be turned. The Prius is the established king of the hill and the Volt is the new upstart.
Actually, driving over 70 miles, the PiP consumes less gasoline than the Volt because of Volt's higher gasoline consumption: Driving less than 15 miles per drive, after the full recharge, both will consume 0 gasoline. But, you have to consider: - 4 seats in Volt vs. 5 seats in PiP - 32.000 $ for PiP vs. 42.000 for Volt - trunk space (PiP 21.6 cubic feet. Volt = 10.6.)
I compared with the LS 250h which is about the same weight and size but gets worse mpg and the CT 200h which gets the same highway mpg but significantly better city mpg (Volt does most city driving on battery) and the 200h is also a compact but notably smaller, lighter, and slower. I guess you could call them all so-so hybrids that get poor mpg....
Your range comparison is a bit off. Under the conditions where you would get 13 miles of EV range in the PiP you would get loosely about 42 miles of EV range in the Volt (not 30).
yes, very cool. I haven't seen a Pip floating around austin yet. I'm surprised you have one in Kerrville. Yesterday I was at a stop light of the evolution of hybrid. volt, then gen II prius, then original insight all lined up, with me in my gen III in the next lane. That insight looked so small and aerodynamic in that line.
I did a lot of research comparing the Volt and Prius (non PIP) before making my decision. The Volt has a great road feel, quiet and smooth/fast acceleration but is cramped inside and has one of the worst backup cameras ever implemented. The Volt also scraped my driveway because it is so low. The deciding factor for me came down to overall economy: I would drive too much in extended range mode that the Prius just makes more sense. It also hurts that the Volt requires Premium fuel. I ended up with a 2012 Prius five with the AT package – I have to say that this car is nothing like the earlier ‘economy box’ Prius models…I also like the visibility and power seat over the Volt configuration. I considered the Prius PIP but not with a 5k premium…I’ll let the early adopters cover that cost wait for a second gen with hopefully better range.
Just fyi - If you are talking about gas and EPA estimates the crossover point in 106 miles. I would say if your commute is even 65 miles you probably won't choose a volt. If you are doing mpge to calculate energy the crossover is 68 miles. Its good to have choices. Going over 70 miles every day might depreciate that battery fast in the prius phv and you may be jonesing to have a spare tire in the car in the middle of nowhere. a regular gen III liftback may be the appropriate efficient car.
Again, Who in the world did you ask? If you had read the automotive or business press you would have heard early adopters. Were you only going to fan boi sights, or did you have your fingers in your ears going "la la la la" The car is what it is. If they were going to easily sell 100K a year congress wouldn't have put in incentives to try to make these easier for early adopters to buy, until the technology was mature. Be happy that there is choice. Don't whine because you feel slighted by some marketing department or fan bois. Life is too short. Oh and enjoy your phv. I'm glad you should be getting it soon. How well or poorly it sells versus the volt should have nothing to do with the fun you have with it.
No, you'd have to drive ~106+ miles. First, you can't use that graph b/c it is measuring costs vs trip distance which is not the same a gasoline usage vs. trip distance. Furthermore, that graph is just wrong. The bends in each curve should be at 15 and 35 miles for the Prius Plug-in and Volt, respectively (based on the estimated 15 mile range of the Prius Plug-in at the time the graph was published). There should also be zero cost at zero miles, but at least one of the two curves does not hit 0,0.
You've some bad data there. First clearly says its some cost chart.. (not gas used). If you pay a lot for electricity then the cost benefit changes quickly. With respect to gas, 11 miles EV range & 50MPG (highway) for PiP and 35 EV range for volt and 40MPH HWY the cross over point is 136miles. If you use the 37MPG EPA blended rate the cross over on gas usage is 105 miles.
Can you add the Prius in there at 55 mpg and 50 mpg? I can do this on a spreadsheet at home too, but would be very telling to see it on this graph too.
Yea, the exception would be for long distance trips. On average, Volt would cover about 70% of the daily trips with electricity. Prius PHV should cover about 33%. The difference would be 37%. For that Volt needs significant bigger battery (16kWh vs 4.4kWh) and corresponding electricity to feed it.
A little early to tell but Prius PHV owners are getting more than 11 miles and more than 50 MPG. The graph assumes there will be only one charge. In reality, there could be multiple charges with multiple trips in a single day.
Where did you get 37%.. If I recall correctly, UF for 11miles is 22%. if you want to take easy driving (to get 15miles for PiP) (), then You need to use 52miles for the Volt (E.g as raw UDDS numbers or EU cycles)
