Does anybody else think the PiP is overpriced ???

i have to say it... bedrox8 (or whatever you name is)... i feel your math is making people dumber on this forum. not only did i have to see it posted once.. but twice.. then re posted because other people know there are way more factors going into this than simple EV miles.

let's keep this simple.. if you own a prius, there is no reason to get a plugin.. it's an irresponsible investment. (cars are not investments anyway. they are liabilities...)

from a genIII to a plugin, there is about a 5k dollar premium. (rough estimate since packages are not exactly the same) that's not bad for 14 miles of EV range.

a chevy cruze eco with a semi similar package (although falling way short).. is priced around 21k-22k. (the volts is the same shell as the cruze, so i used it on this compairison)

a volt cost 43k when similarly equipped like the PIP... so that's a 20k dollar premium to drive 40 miles.. plus.. you lose a seat.

back to backwards math... that's roughtly 357 dollars per EV range mile for the PIP and roughly 500 dollars per available mile from the Volt. still a deal.

plus.. with a prius, you get more range at a higher mpg... if i recall correctly, the volt has a system where it will make you burn through a tank of gas to keep it from going bad... if i recall.. the PIP doesn't force you do do that. if you're in city and only going 10 miles (extremely common for me).. then the PIP wins over other cars.

back to the real topic though. the PIP isn't overpriced.. even the advanced model isn't exactly over priced... you get head up display, apps that work with the car, HDD navigation, and radar cruise control.... (back when i purchased my genII, i was paying more for half the options... heck.. the rear backup camera wasn't even available)

so.... as a forum... it's good to see what people say about a prius to a PIP... but as an owner... if you're trying to find others to crunch numbers for you since you can't make up your mind... you probably shouldn't be getting it anyway. it's one thing to know you're investing into a future technology. it's another to try and justify it. you can't justify future technologies. i paid a huge premium for my car that i'm ok with since it helped secure HSD as a hybrid powerhouse. these cars are now so fully loaded it's almost silly.. there's more tech going on in the car than there is in the house. makes a home feel rather boring.

 

Compared to similar cars, the Prius has one of the lowest TCO around! Didn't it top the Edmunds list of mid-size cars in TCO?

 

The Volt isn't any more comparable to the Cruze as the Prius is comparable to the Corolla...

 

That was in reference to the previous post. 300lbs chunk of steel may justify some to say it is "worth" the extra ride comfort to purchase it. On the same token, fuel saving technology isn't worth it because you can't feel the benefit with your rear end. That's what I was getting at.

Prius PHV is probably the 2nd lightest plugin car available, i-MiEV being the lightest but the size difference is so great.

 

Agree so far.

Let's use EPA which is about 11 blended - 1 of gas = 10 miles on electricity.
I also would say $6K premium, but there is a $2.5K credit = $3.5K/10 = $350/electric mile. But say this is in california, the state where the bulk will be sold. There an extra $1.5K credit and a shiny HOV sticker. Now the problem with the numbers in the prius is discounted and the phv likely will not be so difference is greater in terms of dollars. These numbers still work in california, but require someone to really want to plug in to pay the premium in most states.

Crazy comparison if you are dogging it that way you should compare the phv to a matrix. Let's say though its about $16K more - $7.5K credit = $8.5K for 35 miles EPA range = $240/electric miles. The same things go for California comparison.

Its up to each person to decide if these electric miles are worth it, and if they like the total package. The phv is not priced to sell in large quantities, so prius liftback especially a discounted one is a better deal. Someone that wants a plug in and if its got to be a prius, well there is only one choice. I doubt toyota is ripping anyone off. It is not a very big price premium.

 

I did not buy one because the financial math does not work.

However, we will eventually get to an all electric vehicle....the engineers need more time, and we need to run out of easy to get to oil.

I for one, do not want my dollars going to countries that want to kill us. I cut my yearly consumption from 1200 gallons down to 400.

Also, I am a green person ( I have solar on my house ) and as a green person, I have much better places to put my 6K in to reduce my carbon foot print.

So for me, it was a regualar prius.

Maybe my next car will be a plug in..

 

I gotta throw my 2 cents in here. By some of the logic presented here, we should all be driving old VW bugs around, after all , all the improvements made on cars since they were on the road are either unnecessary or unwanted. I just bought a new 2012 Prius 4, trading in a 2007 Camry. Now you put the pencil to this transaction and it look like I completely crazy, but guess what , I am completely happy. I knew what the figures were, but I like the HUD, heated seats , Nav screen , solar, etc. etc. I know I paid a lot , but I am HAPPY and my wife is happy.
By the logic presented here, Apple would never sell another new higher level of Ipad, after all there are a lot cheaper alternatives, but guess what, tons of people are just waiting in the starting blocks to buy the latest. I figured my purchase like this , gas will continue to go up over the next 5-10 years I plan on keeping the car, the cost of an identical car will keep going up, year after year, so I jumped in and bought one.
I don't know much about the PiP , maybe it isn't worth the extra dollars on paper, but sometimes you can't measure happiness in mpg or dollars, maybe people just like the heck out of the car and that makes it worth the extra money to them.

 

Yes, I've been reading this thread since post #1.

It's a yes or no question. Which is it? A "big chunk of steel" or not? BTW, some more checking on cars.com and I found the 2008 RAV is only 135 pounds heavier than the PIP (3300 vs 3165).

 

Excuse the threadjack but did you consider the 2012 Camry Hybrid?

 

I am not sure if the HUD is a "nice to have" feature. I tend to drive MPG cautiously and find myself constantly monitoring the HSI system. Having the HSI bar project in front of me on the windshield would count as safety feature for me, similarly a back-up cam.

 

Yes I did consider it, in fact , that is why I stopped into the dealership. They didn't have any in stock and said in fact, they didn't sell very many, as most of the people that came in to buy a hybrid ended up buying a Prius. They had no information whatsoever on the PiP either, of course they could have just been wanting to sell what they had in stock. My Camry seats were really starting to kill my back on longer trips, and I really like the Prius seats , so I wasn't too disappointed in the lack of hybrid Camrys on the lot.

 

I think 2012 camry hybrid is going to be a hot seller among hybrid SEDANS with the improved MPG. There are many people who think a HB like Prius is ugly or for folks who have to haul a lot of stuff daily.
Its funny how much stigma is attached to Prius

 

I've been reading this highly entertaining thread, and I LOVE the snarky comments. Keep them coming.

Seriously though, to respond to some of the folks who take issue with the OP making the comparison between the "standard" Gen 3 Prius and the PHP:

-Obviously there are many different variables people consider when they make a car purchase
-Moreover, different folks ascribe different preferences to different variables (e.g. I care more about fuel efficiency than acceleration). People on this forum may consider mostly the same set of variables important but weigh each one differently, so we could argue forever about which is better and which is or isn't worth the price because we have different premises regarding what's important.
-Cost savings from efficiency is merely one variable that people can consider.
-A comparison between any 2 vehicles can be made when you are comparing specific variables. Just be clear about which variables you are comparing.
-Whenever anyone says one vehicle is "better" than another or a vehicle is "not worth it", they are making implicit assumptions about what variables they're referring to an which ones they value.
-Obviously the OP highly values cost savings from efficiency. That said, it is clear that this is not the only variable he considers, otherwise, he'd buy a cheap, crappy, efficient moped or something. So attacking him with this line of reasoning is silly.
-My conclusion is that it's reasonable to compare 2 vehicles with regard to relative cost savings from gains in efficiency because you can hold other variables constant or adjust for them.
-I, like most people in this forum, care about cost savings from efficiency, but this was not the sole determining factor in my purchase. I was very up-front with my wife and justified spending $31K on a new car that I didn't need because A) I wanted to treat myself to something nice and B) I care about the environment and our country's dependence on oil. I knew that I would never make my money back through gas savings. But that does not mean that I cannot compare different Prius' based upon cost savings from efficiency and the premium you pay for it.

 

In my opinion, 300 lbs is a big chunk of steel. Why would I write it if I didn't think it was? That's about 10% of Prius weight.

 

Genius!

Kindle Fire: $200.00
Ipad 3: $500.00

The ipad 3 is overpriced and I am buying my first Apple product next week.

 

Arrggh. Either you don't understand my simple question or you're being obtuse on purpose. If you say the RAV is a "big chunk of steel" at 3300 pounds, is the PIP which is only 135 pounds less at 3165 also a "big chunk of steel"?

Yes or No?

 

Every pound of PHV is there to reduce oil consumption and lower emission. It doesn't have a big chunk of steel for extra cushion to your tushin.

 

Yes or no?